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  #11  
Old 11-04-2012
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Re: Lesson from Sandy

Frogwatch,
I know this is pointless because you obviously have your mind made up, but here's the facts.

Chef's boat is 5 miles from my house, we got 51 mph gusts. We got worse than that in several thunderstorms this summer, and saw 67 mph during the 'delreco' in June.

The difference between a thunderstorm and a hurricane (in this case) is primarily duration. Let me be real clear - the hurricane lasts longer and can chafe more.
Ergo (this should be simple to follow) - it makes sense to watch the lines and inspect them on a regular basis for chafe - surely you can walk around in 50 mph gusts? Dave's a big guy, I'm sure he had no problem.

The projected surge in our area was minimal, and yet is still makes sense to be able to ease and tighten lines as needed.
If my boat had been at my pier (110 feet from my window) I would not have been on it, but I'd have visited hourly - much like the marina folks 800 feet across the river from me did.

FerretChaser, a poster here, also stayed aboard. His boat is his home, currently on the Bohemia river about 30 miles north of me. Do you really want to suggest he (after having made a trans-atlantic) on his home did not do everything he could or should have done to prepare his home.
And now my opinion:

Your general statements of contempt and dis-respect are based on a lack of knowledge and smell of bias and prejudice I find unsavory.
Far more people die and are injured staying in their homes during storms than boater, and often neither have a choice.
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  #12  
Old 11-04-2012
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Re: Lesson from Sandy

Nicely done, Chuckles.

In this storm, people thought they were safe at home in their beds - they died when trees fell on them. People thought to avoid the trees and stay safer in the basement - they drowned in floods. You can *influence* - but not *control* - what happens to you and your stuff in big storms.
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  #13  
Old 11-04-2012
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Re: Lesson from Sandy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frogwatch View Post
......I have no problem with people staying aboard and then admitting their mistake but to try to tell anyone it was a good idea is like advocating you stand in the way of a freight train, immoral and incomprehensible.
Is there an "Unlike" button I can hit for this?



Frogwatch - Chef started this thread to make the point that now is the time to for us all to be helping each other recover from the storm, which is a sentiment I happen to agree with.......you obviously have a different opinion than Chef about whether or not you would stay aboard during a storm, and you have every right to that opinion, but why do you feel the need to attack him like you are?
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  #14  
Old 11-04-2012
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Re: Lesson from Sandy

Everyone in the path of this storm made a decision on how to handle it for their boat, and their location. No one can predict the future, or the severity of any storm. Personally, we moved to a more sheltered slip in our marina in Herring Bay area, Chesapeake, did all the necessary prep of double lines/fenders, etc. and did not stay on board. We came through unscathed and are so grateful. We feel so fortunate, and our hearts go out to those in New Jersey and elsewhere who had damage to their boats, or lost their boats. We are so sorry for your loss. Let's all try to understand that everyone's situation is unique and not judge others for what they did or did not do. Let's just be glad you are all alive and kicking enough to argue about it!!
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  #15  
Old 11-04-2012
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Re: Lesson from Sandy

Quote:
My heart is heavy with the scenes from Staten Island and fuirther nolrth as I see the havoc and hardship this has caused. As you sit in you chairs please give to the charity of your CHOICE to help those who need it. They really do.

That should be the priority now, helping those with broken lives, not afixing blame, their will be plenty of time for that later-chef2sail
I spoke to five different friends today from the area. All were crying on the phone/ skype. Their lives are really really upside down. They are all so grateful they are alive.

If you know someone from this affected area please if you can call them, e mail them get in touch with them. That contact will go along way. I heard two times in their comments, that at night they really felt overwhelmed sitting in the dark in a dmaged house with no heat and felt all alone.

Guys, this is paramount please give freely to the charity you will beleive will help the people in the NY, NJ area.

The best lesson from Sandy is how we can rgroup and help our fellow man.

Dave
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  #16  
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Re: Lesson from Sandy

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
What seems to have occured in Sandy posts is the mentality of some on SN to snap judge others for decisions that they are making while under the gun of this storm. If you notice most of the most strident of opinions come from those jockeying for position at their computer desks not from those who REALLY had to deal with the conditions. My observations those in the "kill zone" of this storm seem accepting and understand that they had to make decisions based on their best knowledge of the situation and the conditions they faced in each individual situation with the reasources they had available.

Some had the availability to run to protected areas. Some had the availability to haul. Some had the availability to leave their boats ties up and find a hotel or lodging, some had the availability of a mooring.

You have one group who wants to give "Darwin" awards for anyone who stayed on their vessel.
You have another group who insists its best practice to put you boat up out of the water
You have another group who stays woith their boats and makes decisions based on conditions
You have another group who ties up to a fixed dock
You have another group who ties up to a floating dock.
Give to this charity no this one isnt worth, but mine are

My question is not which one of these are correct, because in my mind that needs to be deternibed by each individual captian while facing his/ her situations

My observation is that the people who passed judgement so quickly and criticised the actions of those who were truly in harms way did nothing to help the situation and in fact were like unresquested backround noise or VHF static. This kind of behavior is an example of the worst of the human side IMHO. There is plenty of time to "learn the lessons" of this Sandy.


Personally I felt in harms way ( turned out I was 100 miles south or due west of the worst devastatiion ). Had I not taken prudent actions my boat would have been damaged or destroyed, I by no means was in the worst Kill zone of this strorm, but could have been with one small jog of it. Most on here were truly supportuve in our comming through unscathed and concerned about us, our families, and our vessels. I have many friends on here I have met through my sailing travels, talked to in person, or even just through here I was waiting to hear from hoping they were ok. I am releived that almost all have come through and are accounted for.

My heart is heavy with the scenes from Staten Island and fuirther nolrth as I see the havoc and hardship this has caused. As you sit in you chairs please give to the charity of your CHOICE to help those who need it. They really do.

That should be the priority now, helping those with broken lives, not afixing blame, their will be plenty of time for that later.


Dave
Chef...

Do you think that you were the only one who has been in danger of a hurricane? Does it occur to you that a good many of those people who were behind computer screens for Sandy and not in extreme danger for this particular storm may have experienced equal or worse storms in the past? To trash anyone who took different position than you as to staying on boats in hurricanes is short sighted and rude. In my opinion, you are trying to justify an action (staying on the boat to adjust lines in the path of a hurricane) as a good thing. There are many other boat owners who believe that protecting one's life is better than protecting a boat that is in a slip. I believe Frogwatch had it exactly correct and you trashed him. No need to be so vindictive.

I also believe that posts encouraging staying on a boat to adjust lines could actually endanger lives of newbies or others who don't understand what these storms can do. I'm sorry, but you didn't get the blunt and full force of this hurricane...you were sheltered, and the storm passed north of you. To everyone who thinks staying on the boat when you don't have to should reflect long and hard on those pictures of masses of boats swept together in jumbled pile at some locations. It didn't happen at every location, but who amoung us can say which marina will be destroyed and which will not?

Maybe all that static you heard were good meaning people thinking about your and other's safety. But, I'm sure that you will trash this post on a personal insult basis. Go ahead. It doesn't make your decision any more correct.
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Last edited by NCC320; 11-04-2012 at 09:20 PM.
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  #17  
Old 11-04-2012
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Re: Lesson from Sandy

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdogandy View Post
but why do you feel the need to attack him like you are?
I'm not seeing an attack- I am seeing a valid difference of opinion.
Frogwatch has stated his experience based on, as he says, 6+ storm surges. chef relayed his experience during this one event.
Neither opinion is invalid, but the only "attack" i see here is on frogwatch.
Another example of an attack is tearing into a poster asking for help, you know, like before a storm, then insulting the poster's parents, his intelligence, his education, while providing no actual advice whatsoever.


Chuckles, you really think the difference between a hurricane and a thunder storm is DURATION?
I'm no meteorologist, but i'm pretty sure the windspeed, barometric pressure and storm surge of a hurricane are different from a thunderstorm. The Chesapeake got off light this time. new jersey saw a hell of a lot more than a long duration thunderstorm.
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Last edited by bljones; 11-04-2012 at 09:29 PM.
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  #18  
Old 11-04-2012
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Re: Lesson from Sandy

Froggie, I suppose you have never read any of the sailing books or magazine articles written by the Pardeys or Jimmy Cornell or anyone else who has tens of thousands of miles of cruising experience under their keels?

Folks who are out cruising, especially folks who have been sailing pre-internet, pre-weather-satellite, or just in corners of the world where weathermen don't have all the great toys, have often been caught out in bad weather. yes, including hurricanes, typhoons, cyclones, whatever the local word for them is.

And you'll hear from all of them that being aboard the boat allows you ro RUN THE ENGINE to take the strain off the ground tackle, or if necessary, to stay off a lee shore if the tackle breaks.

To fend off other craft or debris drifting down on them, or to move out of the way.

And to rotate, replace, or replenish chafing gear, because you can "prepare" all you want but eventually it all chafes and parts anyway.

Then too, you can do basic damage control if something does hit the boat or give way, and that can prevent a total loss.

Sure, you can secure the boat and then go wait it out in a bunker, and that might be the safest thing to do. Safest for you--but not the boat. Assuming your bunker doesn't flood or a tree doesn't squash you like a bug, which happens often enough in every major storm too. And you probably won't be electrocuted by a downed power line while you're on your boat, either. Yes, this morning a NYC Sanitation worker nearly died because there was a live power line in a puddle he walked into.
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  #19  
Old 11-04-2012
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Re: Lesson from Sandy

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobnpaula View Post
our marina in Herring Bay area, Chesapeake,!
I'm in H4, HH south until April, then I get to bring her home

Not a single boat damaged there.
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  #20  
Old 11-04-2012
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Re: Lesson from Sandy

Quote:
Frogwatch has stated his experience based on, as he says, 6+ storm surges. chef relayed his experience during this one event.
Neither opinion is invalid, but -bljones
.

True i only related my experience as this event was unfolding.Bujt I also have mentioned a transatlantic experience pre loran in a force 7 storm. If you need me to I can expand upon my over 10,000 miles of blue water sailing, I did not feel that was necessary

Quote:
the only "attack" i see here is on frogwatch
Hmmm you must not have read or disreagarded your friend Frogwatches comments about the "Darwin awards" with attacking quuotes like

Quote:
Staying aboard is simply an act of foolish bravado and we should have contempt for it. If you stay aboard, nobody thinks you are brave, we think you're a moron.Frogwatch
how convienent
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