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  #1  
Old 11-04-2012
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Lesson from Sandy

What seems to have occured in Sandy posts is the mentality of some on SN to snap judge others for decisions that they are making while under the gun of this storm. If you notice most of the most strident of opinions come from those jockeying for position at their computer desks not from those who REALLY had to deal with the conditions. My observations those in the "kill zone" of this storm seem accepting and understand that they had to make decisions based on their best knowledge of the situation and the conditions they faced in each individual situation with the reasources they had available.

Some had the availability to run to protected areas. Some had the availability to haul. Some had the availability to leave their boats ties up and find a hotel or lodging, some had the availability of a mooring.

You have one group who wants to give "Darwin" awards for anyone who stayed on their vessel.
You have another group who insists its best practice to put you boat up out of the water
You have another group who stays woith their boats and makes decisions based on conditions
You have another group who ties up to a fixed dock
You have another group who ties up to a floating dock.
Give to this charity no this one isnt worth, but mine are

My question is not which one of these are correct, because in my mind that needs to be deternibed by each individual captian while facing his/ her situations

My observation is that the people who passed judgement so quickly and criticised the actions of those who were truly in harms way did nothing to help the situation and in fact were like unresquested backround noise or VHF static. This kind of behavior is an example of the worst of the human side IMHO. There is plenty of time to "learn the lessons" of this Sandy.


Personally I felt in harms way ( turned out I was 100 miles south or due west of the worst devastatiion ). Had I not taken prudent actions my boat would have been damaged or destroyed, I by no means was in the worst Kill zone of this strorm, but could have been with one small jog of it. Most on here were truly supportuve in our comming through unscathed and concerned about us, our families, and our vessels. I have many friends on here I have met through my sailing travels, talked to in person, or even just through here I was waiting to hear from hoping they were ok. I am releived that almost all have come through and are accounted for.

My heart is heavy with the scenes from Staten Island and fuirther nolrth as I see the havoc and hardship this has caused. As you sit in you chairs please give to the charity of your CHOICE to help those who need it. They really do.

That should be the priority now, helping those with broken lives, not afixing blame, their will be plenty of time for that later.


Dave
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“Sailing is just the bottom line, like adding up the score in bridge. My real interest is in the tremendous game of life.”- Dennis Conner

Last edited by chef2sail; 11-04-2012 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 11-04-2012
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Re: Lesson from Sandy

Amen!
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Old 11-04-2012
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Re: Lesson from Sandy

For just about every year I have owned my boat (I think 24 now) I have faced this decision at least once a year as I happen to live in NW FL where we always get at least one TS or hurricane. When the question of staying aboard to "ride out the storm" comes along, I laugh at such foolishness and simply check my insurance policy. I've almost never had the option of hauling my boat as such facilities are few here and I almost always decide that her normal dock is the best place for her. So, the only sensible thing to do is to go tie her down good and then go home. I've had minor damage over the years but in no case would my presence have helped and in many cases would have endangered myself for no reason. I will repeat, IN NO CASE WOULD MY PRESENCE ABOARD HAVE HELPED. YES, my boat has been thru storm surge several times. (6X I think).
So, if you are "In the cone" of the storms path and you decide to "ride it out", I think the rest of us would have trouble detecting any resulting brain damage by before and after measurements.
If your boat is not properly protected before the storm, then you are at fault and no amount of you being aboard makes it better. YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE EVERYTHING POSSIBLE BEFORE THE STORM. If you tell me that you saved her by tying extra lines or chafe protection, why didn't you do that before the storm? Nobody can give any real reason for being aboard in the path (cone on the projected path) of a hurricane.

Allow me to give some perspective. Some friends of mine tried to protect some boats at a dock during a typical Cat 1 storm. They said the nylon dock lines were getting seriously stretched so they went and bought a spool of 1/2" nylon and some poly and used it to try to secure boats. They then watched as the 1/2" nylon stretched till as they said "it looked like spaghetti". Meanwhile, the poly was popping like fireworks as it broke and the boats ended up ashore. Being aboard, you would have access to much fewer resources than these guys did.

Staying aboard is simply an act of foolish bravado and we should have contempt for it.
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Old 11-04-2012
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Re: Lesson from Sandy

Quote:
IN NO CASE WOULD MY PRESENCE ABOARD HAVE HELPED-Frogwatch
.

Why am I not I am not suprised by this comment


Quote:
Staying aboard is simply an act of foolish bravado and we should have contempt for it.
-Frogwatch
Contempt is a pretty strong word. You use the word we loosely. I think you would find more people with contempt about your statements than anything else.
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“Sailing is just the bottom line, like adding up the score in bridge. My real interest is in the tremendous game of life.”- Dennis Conner
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Old 11-04-2012
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Re: Lesson from Sandy

OK Chef, I'll back off a bit as everybody is allowed mistakes. If you stayed aboard and learned it was a bad idea, let us know and I'll congrat you on learning a lesson. If you stayed aboard in the path and still think it was a good idea, bad thing.
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Old 11-04-2012
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Re: Lesson from Sandy

Frogwatch,

Posted by you 11/28/2011. And you want me to take your judgement and experience? Stp passing judgement on others and see where maybe you can help them

Quote:
Judgement calls

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've never been in too much trouble at sea although I have been scared. This past weekend is an example. I had my 20' Tolman Standard powerboat at St George Island, Fl and some of my extended family wanted to go out on her. The Tolman is well built (I built her) and has a 90 hp Yamaha OB and a 9.9 OB kicker as backup and is generally a dry boat due to her high sides. However, 8 people.............hmmm, overcrowded for anything but a simple cruise. Still, she is big for a 20' boat so off we went. Wind was about 20 mph and the island sheltered the sound from the seas so the chop was not huge. Mentally made sure I had all my safety gear but felt very uncomfy about the whole thing so decided to not go too far. Instead decided to cross the bay to get fuel.
Turns out the bay is wider than I realized but going downwind was easy.
Got fuel and started back. Yikes, going into the chop really pounds at anything over 11 kts and we get soaked. I was doubting my wisdom although nothing happened. It seemed like forever to get back across. Nobody got seasick and nothing happened but still, somehow I feel as if I screwed up in doing it.

Later, talking to my daughter about our crossing to West End from West Palm last yr on my 28' S2 sailboat, we discussed how rough it was although the conditions were supposedly ideal, SE wind about 15 kts but dang it seemed rough. We talked about whether it actually had been rough or if we had simply been scared and I really don't know. While doing it I was certainly doubting my judgement and none of the others who said they would leave that morning went (at 4:00 am nobody answers VHF calls to answer fi they are going).Frogwatch 11/28/2011
Quote:
Staying aboard is simply an act of foolish bravado and we should have contempt for it. - Frogwatch
Self contempt maybe?

Please lets show some signs of sympathy and commradiere for those who weathered this event. The last thing most of us need are poeple judging how we choose to do it. We were there remember?
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“Sailing is just the bottom line, like adding up the score in bridge. My real interest is in the tremendous game of life.”- Dennis Conner

Last edited by chef2sail; 11-04-2012 at 03:49 PM.
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Old 11-04-2012
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Re: Lesson from Sandy

In the past, I have always kept my boat at my mooring during any named storms. I believe it to be safer as the boat points into the weather. I do all the usual storm preps, remove all canvas, anchor, etc. This year, I wanted to haul out and winter the boat earlier so that I could get an early start on some of the projects I intended to get done before the spring launch.

I brought the boat to Morgan a week before Sandy and had to tie up in a slip because of the jam of boats at the dock to be hauled out. It seemed everyone had the same idea of hauling out earlier this year. Anyway, the boat didn't get hauled out for what ever reasons. I did what I could to prepare for Sandy, ie, doubling the lines, fenders, etc.

When I was able to get to the marina after Sandy had passed, it looked like somebodys child had a tantrum and just picked up a bunch of boats off their stands and threw them back on the ground. There was no way to drive into the marina. The boats tied in the slips didn't look much better as all the floating docks had been lifted over the pilings during the 11'-12' surge of water above high tide.

After assessing the way the boats were floating near the shore, I finally found my boat in the approximate area I thought it might be. The lines held and the fenders were still there. The most damage was at the bow. Half the bowsprit was missing, the furler drum was in pieces and the bow pulpit was ripped off. I'll be able to assess all the damage once they get her hauled out.

The lesson here is there really was no right way to prepare for this particular storm, especially with what was considered safe upland storage. Who could have imagined such a surge of water and the associated up land devastation? I'm sure there would have been alot less damage, if any, had the boat been moored at my mooring in Great Kills. The boats that sustained damage at Great Kills and at Morgan were either tied in slips or blocked upland for the winter.
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Old 11-04-2012
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Re: Lesson from Sandy

I also had my boat at Morgan on the hard. She was lifted off her stands and spent a good amount of time playing bumper boats. I found her a good 100 yards from where she was blocked. Needless to say, serious damage occurred.

5 boats from our Club in Keyport stayed on their mooring without incident. During Irene, two from the fleet had broken away from their moorings and ended up on the beach.

You do the best you can with the information at hand and hope for the best.
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Old 11-04-2012
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Re: Lesson from Sandy

Staying aboard when you are in the path of a hurricane to preserve your boat is an admission that you have not done all you could to prepare.

Tell me one thing you could do aboard in a hurricane that could not be done prior to the storm in some other fashion.

I am very willing to admit to my mistakes as I have done in the past and I hope I have learned from them.

I have no problem with people staying aboard and then admitting their mistake but to try to tell anyone it was a good idea is like advocating you stand in the way of a freight train, immoral and incomprehensible.
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Old 11-04-2012
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Re: Lesson from Sandy

Hey Frogwatch
I think Chef is nuts.... the difference is that I think that is an admirable quality What does it matter to you, anyway?
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