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  #51  
Old 11-08-2012
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Re: The Emotions Over The Bounty Tragedy

Quote:
When you type 1000 to 2000 words in a single post, I read it as emotional and aggressive, not just an opinion- Minnewaska.
Understood. I am used to writeing these long memos with explainations for Congressmen and Senators so I tend to be verbose. I will try and cut down a little.

I refuse to correct my spelling though

I am holding you to the ritas this summer when I visit NE or if you come down here to visit.

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  #52  
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Re: The Emotions Over The Bounty Tragedy

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Originally Posted by JulieMor View Post
There's little question that there is an emotional cauldron brewing over the Bounty tragedy, at least within the sailing and maritime communities. In the rest of the world, it's only a side note.

Without going into who is at fault, I was wondering if anyone can come up with why this particular tragedy is causing such an emotional and lasting response?

In the past few months there have been at least three other boating incidents that resulted in the loss of life. Two recently had the findings of the Coast Guard investigations released. But none of these incidents have created anywhere near the emotional fervor that the Bounty has created. The Bounty thread here is still boiling over.

So what is it? Is it the ship, the captain, the crew, how this could have happened? What is it about this particular tragedy that we can't let go of?
I think it is the fact the ship headed out to sea in the general direction of one of the largest forecasted hurricane/superstorms in historical times. Weather the storm caused or contributed to the sinking is in question, but the fact that the ship set sail, given the forecast is simply shocking to both non sailors, commercial mariners, and experienced tall ship captains alike.
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Last edited by casey1999; 11-08-2012 at 02:03 PM.
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  #53  
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Re: The Emotions Over The Bounty Tragedy

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
I don't know if I understand you correctly. You are saying that a Captain gamble with the lives of his crew and is not responsible if he loses the gamble?

A Captain should never gamble and would only take a risk, even a calculated one if that risk is the lesser one.
My understanding was when they shoved off, Sandy was just a blip on the radar if even that & no one ever expected for this to become the storm of the century.

By the time they realized the magnitude of this storm I believe the captain of that vessel did what he thought would was the right thing to do, put some sea distance between him & the storm.

Could he have made it back to port safely? I don't know. Call it a gamble, call it a calculated risk. I'm sure he wasn't planning on losing the ship or dying.
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  #54  
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Re: The Emotions Over The Bounty Tragedy

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieMor View Post
From what I've read in this thread, it seems there are two schools of thought at the core of why this has become such an emotional discussion:

1. Those who believe that the ship should never have sailed into a hurricane and by simply avoiding the hurricane would have resulted in zero loss of life and the captain is always responsible for his or her ship.
2. Those who believe the official investigation is the only place where it can be determined who or what is at fault for the death of two sailors and the loss of the ship.
I think you have forgotten this position that it is defended by some:


Quote:
Originally Posted by misfits View Post
...

Sad as it may be it was a boat that got stuck in a hurricane & it sank.

No one including the captain is to blame for this. The captain took a gamble trying to skirt the storm & lost. ....
I mean, the captain is not to blame, he just got caught in an hurricane and sunk, whatever the result of official investigations.

Obviously misfits has this opinion and probably the ones that liked his post.

Regards

Paulo
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Re: The Emotions Over The Bounty Tragedy

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Originally Posted by misfits View Post
My understanding was when they shoved off, Sandy was just a blip on the radar if even that & no one ever expected for this to become the storm of the century.
.
They left port on Oct 25. There is a satellite image taken by NASA on Oct 25 on this page, maybe 1/4 of the way down:

Hurricane Sandy: The Superstorm - The Big Picture - Boston.com

Also scroll down a bit farther for a picture of a 700 ton tanker that was washed aground on Staten Island by the storm surge.
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Re: The Emotions Over The Bounty Tragedy

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Originally Posted by Roger Long View Post
"Tall Ships Down", is a book that discusses five sailing vessel losses. .
Rodger,
I have not read tall ships down, but plan to. I have sailed on a few square riggers and also for a short time on the original Pride of Baltimore, but never sailed on such a ship in any significant winds or sea state. Could you comment on the sailing qualities tall ships (as used today) in general (and Bounty if possible) in the areas of:

1. Did she normally motor or sail (or motor/sail)?
2. What wind range could she sail effectively?
3. What angle to the wind could she sail (including wind ranges)?
4. What sea state could she effectively handle and what direction?
5. Did she need to use warps, or drouges in a large following sea?
6. What sea state and wind range could she effectively motor upwind?
7. What lee way would she make?

Regards

Last edited by casey1999; 11-08-2012 at 02:21 PM.
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  #57  
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Re: The Emotions Over The Bounty Tragedy

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Originally Posted by misfits View Post
My understanding was when they shoved off, Sandy was just a blip on the radar if even that & no one ever expected for this to become the storm of the century.
I posted somewhere in this morass that Sandy was officially given hurricane status on October 22 and at the time the Bounty left New London, three days later, hurricane Sandy was trashing the Bahamas.

I don't know when Sandy was first predicted to be a potential superstorm.
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Re: The Emotions Over The Bounty Tragedy

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Originally Posted by JulieMor View Post
I posted somewhere in this morass that Sandy was officially given hurricane status on October 22 and at the time the Bounty left New London, three days later, hurricane Sandy was trashing the Bahamas.

I don't know when Sandy was first predicted to be a potential superstorm.
From:
Debate rages about Bounty captain's decision to set sail | The Chronicle Herald

"Capt. Robin Walbridge stood on the deck of the 180-foot wooden sailing ship Bounty on the sunny afternoon of Oct. 25. The wind was so mild that the ship had motored back to harbor after a short sail. The Bounty was tied to a city pier in New London, Conn.

Walbridge told a small group that the Bounty would be leaving for St. Petersburg, Fla., that night instead of the next morning. He wanted to get a jump on a massive weather system coming from the south that forecasters were calling “historic” and that one already had dubbed “Frankenstorm.”

The National Weather Service’s marine forecast for the area described the coming confluence of systems: “HIGH PRESSURE MOVES OFFSHORE ON FRIDAY AS A COLD FRONT APPROACHES FROM THE WEST. A COASTAL STORM ASSOCIATED WITH TROPICAL CYCLONE SANDY MAY IMPACT THE AREA LATE IN THE WEEKEND AND INTO EARLY NEXT WEEK.”

Walbridge formed a circle with his thumbs and index fingers, and told listeners to look at his right thumb. It represented the southeastern section of the hurricane.

“He said he wanted to get to the southeast quadrant and ride the storm out,” said New London Dockmaster Barbara Neff. No one raised objections.

“He was a great captain,” said Neff, who’s known Walbridge for 15 years. “He knew that boat. I just don’t know that anyone would have questioned him.”

The Bounty left New London about 5 p.m. on Thursday, Oct. 25, crossed Long Island Sound and headed into the Atlantic Ocean. Its crew of 16 ranged in age from 20 to 66.

The report from the National Hurricane Center for that hour said: “SANDY NEAR CAT ISLAND IN THE CENTRAL BAHAMAS … WIND FIELD EXPANDING.”
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  #59  
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Re: The Emotions Over The Bounty Tragedy

Paulo,

Could the Bounty have made it back to port safely before the storm hit?
If the answer is no then in my humble opinion he gambled with what he thought was the right choice. What are we taught about sailing towards a lee shore in a storm?

No one on this forum was there. So it's pretty easy for all us to sit here & speculate on the would've, could've, should've.

Sadly the captain along with another crew member is dead, the boat is gone.

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Re: The Emotions Over The Bounty Tragedy

I sure do agree with the "sad" part. This really is sad. I thank Providence and the Coast Guard Elizabeth City Air Station crews that all but two survived.

I withold judgement here, but captains always ask themselves, "what's my point of no return? Or the point of no lateral bail-out? Or the point where you run out of alphabet-letter "plans" and have to ride with the one you're stuck with? Or, ultimately, "what would I have done--or, make that, "what would I *really* have done if it were me?"

I think we'll find out more about what happened and why in due course. I also think the discussion is natural around the "waterfront" (remember "there are no secrets on the waterfront"), no matter how comfortable it is in front of a keyboard (the new waterfront bar?).

And it seems as though all our waterfront people, after a little bit of elbowing, are still willing to share a drink and agree that opinions are just that.
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Last edited by nolatom; 11-08-2012 at 02:52 PM.
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