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JulieMor 11-07-2012 10:07 PM

The Emotions Over The Bounty Tragedy
There's little question that there is an emotional cauldron brewing over the Bounty tragedy, at least within the sailing and maritime communities. In the rest of the world, it's only a side note.

Without going into who is at fault, I was wondering if anyone can come up with why this particular tragedy is causing such an emotional and lasting response?

In the past few months there have been at least three other boating incidents that resulted in the loss of life. Two recently had the findings of the Coast Guard investigations released. But none of these incidents have created anywhere near the emotional fervor that the Bounty has created. The Bounty thread here is still boiling over.

So what is it? Is it the ship, the captain, the crew, how this could have happened? What is it about this particular tragedy that we can't let go of?

jimjazzdad 11-07-2012 10:23 PM

Re: The Emotions Over The Bounty Tragedy
Julie, I have let go of it. In fact I wish I had never started that damn thread. I am so sick of armchair admirals, amateur experts, and self-educated know-it-alls second guessing professional sailors and a master mariner. None of us know for certain the reason for this tragedy, though some will think they do. I don't want to judge (I'll wait for the outcome of the CG inquiry); I just feel sad that two lives and a beautiful ship were lost.

chef2sail 11-07-2012 11:47 PM

Re: The Emotions Over The Bounty Tragedy

I am also in the same position as Jimjazzdad.
I am also sick of the compter screen denizens passing judgement on this tragic incident

Actually you were not present on Sailnet, but I dont think this has stirred anymore controversey here than the Fairlones or Rule 62 incidents. I finally had to stop reading the thread as the conjecture and the amateur sleuth detectives were going off on such tangents, I couldnt even rememeber what was fact and what was heresay. Because its the internet I guess everyone is an expert in their own minds. And because social media sites like SN it is the NEW normal now to use the election phrase. Ten years ago this would not have happened this way for sure

One could argue that this is a step forward, an improvment because of the new normal, the social media site. Well I dont beleive that everything about this social media site is neccessarily an improvement for all of us. While information is more readily available quickly, so is misinformation. Where is used to be easier to identify fact from opinion, and there was usually time involved, time has vanished from the equation and after the very first shread of a fact the speculation starts ( this is not new).

One of the parts of the new normal I have having trouble adjusting to is the apparent lack of civility which can come with it. When people talk in person there is usually an understood commitment between them it seems. Even though im my businesses we communicate a lot through the net there is still a commitment for civility. Between friends on the net the commitment to civility is maintained. On these social networking sites that doesnt take place. We need moderators on this one for instance whose sole and only purpose really is to keep olrder and for the most part they do a good job, but they cant always be present. So sometimes the internet bullys reign

Most of the time I can control myself when I see one of the offenders by just saying this is the net...thats alll...not fact. Even when someone says " oh were just trying to get to the truth", and maybe they truly mean that, but its a bit of a farce, because those of us who truly conduct investigations in our workplace would never allow or go about it the way it transpires here.

While its fun to project and judge things on here it really isnt real, there are no rules of evidence, there are no real rules period. Just a bunch of ametuers like me with enough experience to read and write, and maybe a smattering of professionals with real lkonowledge in some of the matters, sitting aorund a bar shooting the sh..t. gossiping.

Thats what social media sites are...gossip...not fact. Thats what social media sites are...gossip...not fact. You can learn a lot when people gossip. You can make friends in real life from it. Goodness knows some of you guys know me for real. We have met in person..and at least coming from my side..I am better of from it. I can list a few people on here I have been with numerous times and really enjoy your company. Some have mentored and continue to mentor me ( if if you dont know it) and some maybe I am the mentor, and some its just pure frienship with my wife and I. Thats the good of the social media site of SN.

SN is a social media site and therefore a gossip site. Most of the time it means nothing....what type of anchor, firearms, what type of sail etc. so no one gets real emotional. In these three instances you have mentioned above Baounty, Rule, Fairlones there is emotion. People have perished. Some of us. me included get over indignant when the gossip turns to judgement. Judge,emt ruining reputations and in my opinion to an extent sullying the dead by a bunch of ameteurs.

I wouldnt want my actions judged by this gossip board aclled SN. And i can tell you when my panties get in a twist here it is when I feel someone is using this gossip board to pass jusgement on my actions, like recently with me basically blogging wile a stayed on board my boat during Sandy. Like what right really did any of you have to tell me I was an idiot, winner of the darwin award, or telling newbies the wrong advice. I got all of that thrown at me.

My bad for losing sight I was on a gossip board and not just laughing it off and telling you all to F..k off when it occured. I am not happy at myself for not doing that. I know better what to do and will improve in the future.

I can point to the many friends I have met and say this is the positive, and they KNOW me in person. This is why I stay. I can poin to the Failones, Rule 62, and now Bounty and say this is the negative .

Lets see how long it takes on of the "attack persons" to start making fun of or pokinhg holes in what is my humble opinion.

JulieMor 11-08-2012 01:50 AM

Re: The Emotions Over The Bounty Tragedy
There's no doubt that the form of communication the human race has been built upon, that of face to face type of stuff, has become almost devoid in today's society. The Internet has invited faceless and anonymous interjections, opinions and comments in virtually every aspect of our world, and instantly. That, we cannot control, but maybe we can offer a saner and more civil option to mindless bashing from anonymous "beings" in cyberworld.

But this particular tragedy has stirred up emotions like I've never seen. Is it the history of the original? Is it the fact the ship was featured in two movies? Or is it the love of adventure that mesmerizes so many of us?

I've seen the pictures of the HMS Bounty. I can just imagine what I would feel being at the helm, or even the captain. It's hard to imagine not being pulled into the moment.

The other boats that went down with loss of life were fiberglass, modern and devoid of any history. Is that why the Bounty captures us so much? She was the real thing, heavy timbers, tall masts, ropes and lines everywhere, and human monkeys scrambling to make her sail. Is that what it is? I don't know. I just hope it never happens again.

chef2sail 11-08-2012 02:21 AM

Re: The Emotions Over The Bounty Tragedy
Gloucester Sailor statue

As long as people sail boats there will be tragedys and lives lost at sea, That is the story of history. Bound to keep repeating itself. Wasnt that long ago I can rememebr hearing the Pride of Baltimore 1 was lost traveling back to NA with 4 lost on board.

I have been on the Bounty as I beleive wingnwing has also. She was a neat ship. I have been sailing on a number of tall ships, the Eagle, Cisne Branco the most recent. We had a huge celerbration in Baltimore OP Sail this summer which had over 25 of these beautiies sail up the bay. Was quite a sight. while the beauty of them is really stunning especially when they are under full sail I find beauty in many sailboats. The loss of life is what stirs the emotions.

Star-Spangled Sailabration - June 13-19, 2012 - Baltimore, Maryland

One of the Class B tall ships is berthed permanently in our club Wichcraft a small 60 footer.

We see the Pride of Baltimore II sailing many weekends from our club as well as sail very close to her many times. She is a common sight to those of us who sail the Chessie as she is often seen out on the Bay returning from some adbenture. It wasnt that long ago the original Pride of Baltimore was lost at sea

The Sinking of the Pride Of Baltimore : A Modern Day Tragedy At Sea

Minnewaska 11-08-2012 05:45 AM

Re: The Emotions Over The Bounty Tragedy
For me this was simple. People died in an avoidable situation. You can die crossing the street, but there is no reason to think you might unless you walk out in front of traffic.

Some die in sailboat accidents, but there is no reason to think you might if the crew and boat are appropriate and weather is manageable. None of the known facts has suggested any of the three were the case. Taking an 18th century hull in conditions that bad is foolish and there is no conceivable outcome to the investigation that I believe could suggest otherwise. Death was avoidable.

For the most part, I only see people that met the Captain and visited the boat that express emotion when coming to its defense. It seems personal, not rational.

Minnewaska 11-08-2012 06:17 AM

Re: The Emotions Over The Bounty Tragedy

Originally Posted by JulieMor (Post 945124)
There's no doubt that the form of communication the human race has been built upon, that of face to face type of stuff, has become almost devoid in today's society.......

I just had a thought. Before we give too much credit to the integrity of how humans used to communicate, we may have previously held our tongues in person. However, the moment someone walked away from the table, their critic could quickly unload on them behind their back. You just get to hear it yourself now. Not so sure this isn't an improvement after all.

jameswilson29 11-08-2012 06:46 AM

Re: The Emotions Over The Bounty Tragedy
Freedom of speech and freedom of expression are our greatest rights.

There have always been some thin-skinned individuals who are overally reliant on denial and avoidance as psychological tactics in managing anxiety. If these individuals could only be allowed to pretend these things never happened and to avoid talking about them, then these things could not possibly be so true and disturbing.

The most interesting aspect of these folks trying to squelch the conversation is they could choose not to participate, but they are inevitably drawn to the stressors they are trying to manage. At some subconscious level, they are fighting against reality and want the rest of us to adopt their mechanisms.

wingNwing 11-08-2012 06:52 AM

Re: The Emotions Over The Bounty Tragedy
And here we are again. In my opinion this got nasty because certain SailNetters seem to have a vested interest in PROVING to the rest of us, again and again ad nauseum, their opinion of 100% fault and blame.

Hey, I've got an idea - why don't these folks offer their services to the Coast Guard inquiry, and save the the taxpayers all the cost of the investigation? No need to waste our time with that, since the answers are all so, you know, OBVIOUS.

wingNwing 11-08-2012 06:56 AM

Re: The Emotions Over The Bounty Tragedy
That is not to say that there weren't a few genuine learning moments in the original thread - the effects of wind in one direction on the Gulf Stream going the other to make disproportionately large seas; some of the physics of the original tall ships; etc. But it got totally drowned out in the noise, and hence those insights would be hard for example for newbies to find.

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