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Boo TowBoatUS! They don't connect their own DSC

6K views 32 replies 12 participants last post by  chef2sail 
#1 · (Edited)
Just before Hurricane Sandy, haulout, and winterization made my fall sailing a distant memory, I had a very disappointing experience with TowBoat US. It had been a long time since I had done a radio check, and the automated checks from SeaTow are not possible from my marina because their nearest stations are 20-30 miles away. But we have nearby TowBoat US stations, so I decided to try their service, especially since I pay $125/year for their towing service. While on the boat, I pulled up this press release on my cell phone.

So, following their directions exactly, I called their local number on my cell phone to tell them that I wanted to do a DSC radio check. The phone rep said "huh?" and when I explained more fully, she connected me to a guy on one of their tow boats. He told me he could do a verbal check, but he could not take DSC calls because they don't have any of their DSC radios connected to GPS. I explained that BoatUS had issued a press release saying they offered DSC checks on all their tow boats, and he tried his best to sound too busy to bother with me. I told him that I thought it might be possible for him to receive incoming DSC calls even though his GPS is not connected to his radio, and he insisted it isn't possible. This claim surprises me, since the radio shouldn't need to know its own position to receive the other boat's incoming digital GPS coordinates, but I don't know for sure either. (Obviously, GPS needs to be connected to DSC to automatically send out your boat's coordinates to other boats.)

This guy actually had the nerve to ask me why it was so important for him to receive DSC signals. I told him that if I ever had an emergency, the red distress button would send out my exact GPS coordinates automatically. Then he asked, "why wouldn't you just read the coordinates to me over the radio?" Incredulous, I told him that if I had an emergency situation, the last thing I want to do is have to read off a bunch of numbers, especially when DSC can automatically send them instantaneously and accurately while I attend to injured passengers or other critical items.

I find this especially ironic, since BoatUS has been trumpeting the importance of connecting GPS to DSC radios, such as this article. Here's a quote from that article:

The DSC operating mode that is a feature of all fixed-mount marine radios built since 1999 can, with the push of a single button, send out an automatic distress call to the Coast Guard's Rescue 21 system as well as to all DSC-equipped radios on vessels within your transmission range. That transmission can include your exact position, provided you have connected the radio to your onboard GPS. Unfortunately, as of 2011 the Coast Guard estimates that 90 percent of boats have not made this connection. The message here is that if you have a DSC radio and a GPS on board and they are not connected to each other, making that essential connection should be your highest priority.
Too bad TowBoatUS does not follow its own advice! And if you ever have an emergency and press the red "distress" button, don't count on TowBoatUS answering your call directly. You'll have to hope that USCG picks it up and relays your coordinates for you.
 
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#2 ·
I don't think Towboat would answer your DSC call directly even if they had the GPS and VHF wired correctly. They would wait for the USCG to answer the DSC distress call, then wait for instructions if needed. If the USCG didn't answer your DSC call in five minutes, they probably would respond as is protocol. At least that is the way I remember what is suppose to happen. See here.
Can You Hear Me?
 
#6 ·
I don't think Towboat would answer your DSC call directly even if they had the GPS and VHF wired correctly.
This is not correct. It is contradicted by BoatUS's own press release (which I linked in my original post):
The TowBoatUS 0-338-04000 MMSI (Maritime Mobile Service Identity) number is available to boaters hailing from the Gulf Coast at Mobile, AL, Florida and the Atlantic coast up to Sandy Hook, NJ. When this number is "dialed" on a DSC-VHF radio keypad, a boater will automatically be connected to the closest TowBoatUS port or response boat within radio range.
...Is your vessel equiped with an onboard GPS which your DSC is connected to?
I have a Garmin 18xLVC GPS receiver that is hardwired directly to my Standard Horizon 2150GX VHF/DSC/AIS receiver. I also have Bluetooth transmitters that broadcast the GPS coordinates and AIS sentences to any laptop, tablet, or cell phone. This allows me to verify that the GPS has a good fix. I posted the details of my setup here a couple years ago, and it was featured in the Summer 2011 issue of Catalina's Mainsheet magazine.

I have made successful DSC calls in 2011, but had not gotten TowBoatUS to respond to any during 2012 when I attempted to hail them on their MMSI #0-338-04000.
 
#3 ·
Too bad TowBoatUS does not follow its own advice! And if you ever have an emergency and press the red "distress" button, don't count on TowBoatUS answering your call directly. You'll have to hope that USCG picks it up and relays your coordinates for you Takefive.
Rick,

I think it is the CG responsisbility to respond. Is your vessel equiped with an onboard GPS which your DSC is connected to?
 
#4 ·
CG are the only people who answer/acknowledge a DSC distress call since the acknowledge cancels the alert automatically. Anyone however can make/receive a DSC call (i.e. a ship-to-ship call), you just need to know their MMSI. TowBoatUS vessels should know what their MMSI is so that you can call them, try asking for that specifically.
GPS connection is only necessary to be able to automatically update your position information into the DSC, you should manually enter your position into the DSC at a minimum of every 4 hours otherwise, this position info is then sent as part of the distress call.
I'd suggest if you have a ROC(M) or whatever your equivalent is that you get the additional DSC module.
 
#7 ·
Having made a PAN-PAN after hitting a rock in the 2010 ARLI race i can assure you that Marine Salvors were all over 16 to the point of being a PITA while trying to get setup with the CG to monitor us in case things made a turn for the worse while we motored home

I was astounded at what the CG allowed in LIS
 
#8 ·
I think it would be worth a call to BoatUS. It may just be your local operator.
 
#12 ·
Thanks, Dave. That's a great idea. That BoatUS MMSI number is supposed to work all along the east coast. It's possible that the tow boat in Philly works on a different MMSI number, and by calling the one that BoatUS publicizes I was dialing a "wrong number." I thought about asking the guy on the boat to verify his MMSI number, but he was so insistent that his DSC wouldn't work that he made it clear that he didn't want to be bothered with it.

So I would suggest that you and others who are still on the water on the east coast first try to call MMSI #0-338-04000 for a radio check, and if that doesn't work call the local phone number to ask why it's not working and whether the local boats use a different MMSI number.

At this point I cannot conduct any more testing myself because I am on the hard and, as I understand it, it's a violation of federal law to initiate marine signals from land. Since any DSC call would send out my land-based GPS coordinates, I would be an easy target for a citation. Even if that's not correct, I lowered my mast last weekend so my antenna is down.
 
#11 ·
Rick as a side note how much did it cost to set up your system (notebook included). I am interested as a friend isdecided whether to buy a complete Raymarine/ Garmin system
or do it similarly to how you have. He is an IT professional so I am sure the technical issues he could handle.

Dave
 
#14 · (Edited)
Dave,

I started by buying a Garmin GPSMap 640 on sale for $720 two years ago, but decided that I could get better features for less money by doing it myself, so I returned it unopened to WestMarine. Here's a brief rundown of my costs as best as I recall:

  • MSI Wind Netbook $350 (but I already had one that had sat unused for 2 years, so it really cost me nothing)
  • Industrial strength Bluetooth-RS232 adapters: 2 @ $58 each at USConverters.
  • RAM Mount Toughtray kit for attaching to pedestal guard $80
  • 4-port network box ~$7 at Radio Shack
  • 2 RS-232 D-sub female plugs ~$5 each
  • OpenCPN chartplotter software: free online
  • NOAA charts: free online

I chose to use Bluetooth because I wanted to be able to put it anywhere on the boat without wires hanging around. You could do a wired hookup using USB-Serial connectors instead, and those connectors can be found for as little as $2 each. Many people are doing WiFi connections also, but that was more complicated and the power draw would be more than the Bluetooth adapters.

This setup gives me nice features that you can't get with a standard chartplotter. For instance, the RAM mount allows me to swivel the computer to view from anywhere in the cockpit. The boat is small enough that it helps to sit on the windward side when heeling, so I can turn the screen sideways toward me. Not much heeling in this pic, but you can see the netbook facing sideways:



Another thing that I like is that the GPS and AIS Bluetooth signals are "part of the boat." By that I mean that I can bring any Bluetooth-enabled laptop, tablet, cell phone, etc onto the boat and with appropriate software I have the ability to track these signals. Also, the GPS receiver is hardwired to the radio and on the same 12v circuit, so if the radio is on it always has GPS feeding the DSC. If the Netbook chartplotter dies, the GPS will still work independently of that, ensuring that the DSC function is always fully capable.

What I like most is the ability to run OpenCPN twice in side-by-side windows. One window is zoomed in to see local obstacles, the other one is zoomed out to see AIS vessels:

 
#15 ·
Ahh ok. The new chartplotters have wireless and bluetooth and can be used with a IPAD or Droid anywhere on the boat.

Do you have a way of protecting to use in "weather"
 
#16 ·
I have a TPU membrane over the keyboard that protects from occasional raindrops. Otherwise I take it below into the cabin. My Oregon 400c handheld (which you can see mounted on the pedestal guard) works in works in wet weather.

I don't think iOS or Android apps display AIS targets yet, and I doubt they'll ever do split screen like a Windows or Linux laptop. (marinetraffic.com doesn't pass muster for real-time navigation.) The split screen is great, because I can just focus on sailing without ever touching the computer to zoom in or out.

[Correction: I realize that Android and iOS have some apps that will duplicate the displays of other computers, so it may be possible to use those apps to display AIS targets.]
 
#17 · (Edited)


Rick, that picture actually scares me. My experience on the Delaware was conditions didn't get as lumpy as I see on the Bay, but I'd be afraid of falling into the laptop in rough conditions or in a lot of confused wakes - which wouldn't feel good for me or the laptop.

And what about spray? We had a night last summer where I had water coming over the dodger and smacking me in the chest at the wheel for over an hour (OK so we didn't pick the *best* day for a trip up to Martell's :rolleyes: but it WAS fun :D).

That night my little Garmin 441S got drenched, but I was glad I had it coming into the channel at night with thunderstorms all around us. I'll eventually go to a Garmin 740 but I don't think I'd want to go much bigger.

Don't you find the laptop gets in the way moving around the cockpit? I can't imagine it would stand up to that kind of drenching.

Jim
 
#23 ·


Rick, that picture actually scares me. My experience on the Delaware was conditions didn't get as lumpy as I see on the Bay, but I'd be afraid of falling into the laptop in rough conditions or in a lot of confused wakes - which wouldn't feel good for me or the laptop.

And what about spray?...
Jim,

After 2 seasons of using the netbook in the cockpit, most of those concerns have disappeared. What you don't see in the pic is the wheel, which is directly below the netbook and creates enough of an obstacle that it forces me to maneuver around the pedestal with enough clearance that I don't come close to the netbook. Also not pictured is the split backstay that angles in from both sides, and encourages me to keep my body low as I shift from side to side in the cockpit. Especially in rough conditions, I will typically slide from the center helm seat to one side or the other without even standing up. This keeps me from colliding with the backstay, and keeps me well away from the netbook.

I can only recall a couple times when we got a drop or two of water on the keyboard. Anytime conditions raise the risk, I take the netbook below and use the handheld Garmin for GPS/charts, and my cockpit RAM mic shows a crude display of AIS targets. It's not as graphically rich as my primary setup, but it works in a pinch. If the netbook is driving the Autopilot through a pre-plotted route, it continues to do so via Bluetooth from inside the cabin. (I did actually have the boat auto-navigate all the way up from Delaware City during a rainstorm last September. I sat on the perch seat up under the bimini to stay dry, and kept a lookout while the computer steered the boat under motor power.)

The netbook is 4 or 5 years old, so if some accident were to happen it's close to its end of life anyway. I'll regret losing its incredibly bright daylight viewable screen, but since the whole system is based on Bluetooth broadcasts from the boat and free software/maps, it could easily be replaced, probably with a Windows 8 tablet running OpenCPN.
 
#20 ·
As I said in my prior post, MarineTraffic is not a navigation quality tool. MarineTraffic uses a network of land-based stations manned by hobbyists at their homes. There can be blackout zones when the stations go down, and there can be time delays in their updates. When a vessel is moving 15 knots up the river, a delay of 4 minutes equates to a nautical mile. That's the difference between being able to tack across the channel and encountering a very uncomfortable situation.

I have confirmed this from side-by-side comparison of my real-time AIS reception with the MarineTraffic app on my phone.

MarineTraffic a nice novelty for looking up pictures and port history of boats, but do not use MarineTraffic for real time navigation!
 
#21 ·
Rick the Raymarine AIS ( both sending and receiving) in real time is networked on our chartplotter. The E7 Raymarine will stream all the data on the screen to an IPAD or Droid.

Dave
 
#22 ·
Not to get too far off the topic, but since it's the OP talking...

Where's the AIS coming from? I have setup pretty much the same except I use PolarNavy on the PC (dell mini notebook that runs on a 100w inverter with a GPS puck I got for 15 bucks), and its a backup at the nav station inside.
I use my SH 2150x VHF for the AIS, works like a charm.

And yes, the area Towboat US skippers are not following the policy; no checks on DSC.
 
#24 ·
...Where's the AIS coming from?...
The 2150 sends AIS via NMEA to the RS232 end of the Bluetooth adapter, which broadcasts it to any Bluetooth enabled device that wants to listen.
...And yes, the area Towboat US skippers are not following the policy; no checks on DSC.
Sad that they do not follow their own advice! They've got a press release out that that says they'll do this, but they don't.
 
#26 ·
I'd be surprised if we don't see daylight viewable, waterproof tablets in the not to distant future if someone isn't already making one. It just seems a logical extension for Garmin or Raymarine to do.
I doubt they would replace fixed ones . Thats why they are making them bluetooth and wireless in as small as 7" models so you can stream them into your i pad or droid.

There are some advantages to having the chartplotter fixed at the helm or nav station in a navpod.

Start with its a nice clean streamlined look and installation. Easy to run power and keep it powered. Less suseptible to damage as not only are they made for marine environement, so are their charging/ power connections.

That doesnt mean there isnt usefullness in the other.
 
#27 ·
...Start with its a nice clean streamlined look and installation. Easy to run power and keep it powered. Less suseptible to damage as not only are they made for marine environement, so are their charging/ power connections.

That doesnt mean there isnt usefullness in the other.
I fully admit that am a special case. On this boat I am a fair weather daysailor, in fresh water. Also I'm a geek, and willing to fiddle with a complicated schematic, special configuration files and .bat files to tweak the software to do exactly what I want it to do (such as open two windows in very specific locations on the screen). This is potentially very different from other Sailnetters.

However, for those with similar skills to mine, my setup does offer some very nice advantages in the split screen, and the ability to turn the screen in different directions. And the software has been rock solid all summer long. I haven't had to reboot the computer once - I just put it to sleep when done, and wake it up next time. As my sailing technique has evolved on this boat, I find myself moving around the cockpit a lot (steering from the side with the wheel between my legs, or from the catbird seat), and could not imagine having my chartplotter on a fixed pod. But that's just on this boat in my current sailing area. I could imagine it being very different on a different boat.
 
#29 ·
Dave, Rick,
I think we're more in agreement than we realize.

I'm envisioning a rugged, daylight viewable bluetooth tablet designed to work in concert with a dedicated chart plotter.

The chartplotter is rugged enough to be at the helm in any conditions and its interface is easy to use while piloting the boat.

A dedicated tablet allows you to plan your trip, enter way points, bring up Active Captain info, look at aerial photos of your approach, etc., all on a much larger screen that's easier to interact with. If it's rugged and daylight viewable it can be used above or below deck. If it's running Android it's expandable with apps.

The ability to recognize and sync with a bluetooth headset and phone would allow you to call ahead to a marina by clicking on it or choosing it from the chart plotter. Tie the VHF in via bluetooth and that same headset or earbud could be used to make hands free VHF calls or calls to an AIS target. Think about the advantage of having your hands free on an emergency VHF call.

Or how about being able to use two bluetooth earpieces through the system so you could talk with someone of the foredeck when anchoring or docking?

I think we're just starting to scratch the surface of this technology.

And Rick I like the idea of being able to rotate the plotter. Mine is on a swivel so I can see it when I'm forward of the wheel.

Jim
 
#30 ·
Yes I agree. I like the chartplotter which is inegrated with all my Raymarine insturments...autopilot, AIS, radar, deptfinder, and wind as well as engine instrruemtation.

I can Set my screen split with just two active components, which I usually do with radar side by side with cartigraphy and ais or superimpose. You can actually divide the cscreen into 4. I use my IPAD to move around the boat and pllot course and can lay it into the chartplotter. Everything on the plotter shows up on the IPAD. It also shows up on my droid phone, but my old eyes along with the bouncing motion of the boat make it a kittke more difficult to read.

I am not as computer savy as Rick so my high tech is going to be different and have to be set up for me. I also dont hink for the type of sailing I do,,,offshore sometimes and night...that a netbook topsides as my primary ( after charts) will work. I love the new AIS integration. HOoever it can be a bit ,uch sometimes

On our last trip to the LI Sound and NE we were heading up the Jersey coast at night. During the day we stayed 3-4 miles off the shore and could see everything visually well so no need to radar, AIS. As we approached Sandy Hook at dusk I turned on the radar and AIS and had a 5 mile ring set up and it looked like an acrade game. TMI One I split screen it was better. The fast ferrys from Atlantic Hihghlands to Manahattan looked like comets accross the screen.

dave

Dave
 
#32 ·
Dave aka chef2sail: Did you get a chance to do a DSC radio check this weekend? Just wondering what result you got.
 
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