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  #11  
Old 01-16-2013
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Re: Anyone know anything about Precision Sail Loft?

I am happy with the Rolly Tasker main I got from NationalSail Supply.
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  #12  
Old 01-16-2013
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Re: Anyone know anything about Precision Sail Loft?

I'm a sailmaker, and the first question I ask when I visit any competitor's website is "what cloth are they using for this sail?"

For those of you who would like to see what Challenge Sailcloth offers in its range of woven dacron sailcloth, go to challengesailcloth dot com and follow the links to their sailmaker pages. You can download specification sheets for every dacron cloth Challenge sells in the 6, 7, and 8 oz range to see the actual weights of the dacron.

At the same website, there is a link to Challenge's Application Guideline chart showing what cloths are recommended by Challenge for use on different boats.

Take MedSailor's Formosa 41 as an example.

For cruisers, Challenge recommends using "9.18 Performance Cruise" or "8.88 High Mass" for the 100% jib (aka #3 genoa). Cruiser/racers willing to pay a little more could choose the "8.63 High-Modulus, High-Aspect" dacron.

If the Formosa is a heavily ballasted boat sailing for its LOA, it would be prudent to select a cloth recommended for a 42-48' boat. In this case, the cruising cloth recommended by Challenge would be either "10.18 Performance Cruise" or "9.88 High Mass Dacron". Cruiser/racers willing to pay a little more could choose the "9.3 High-Modulus, High-Aspect" dacron.

some things that I noted:
#1 Precision's webpage for a Formosa 41 headsail specifies that they will build all the headsails for this boat using "7.6 oz. Premium Challenge Dacron". They use the same cloth for headsails from a 95% jib (aka #3 genoa) to a 160% genoa (aka light #1 Genoa).

A sailmaker usually selects different cloths for a tall skinny jib used in strong wind than s/he does for a short, wide genoa for use in a light breeze.

#2, Challenge doesn't make anything called "7.6 oz. Premium Challenge Dacron". Nor do they manufacture a dacron sailcloth that weighs 7.6 oz.

#3 Based on the limited information Precision provides on their website, I can't satisfactorily answer the question: "What sailcloth are they using to build this sail?"



[Full disclosure: My name is Judy Blumhorst, and I am an independent representative for Hyde Sails USA]
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Last edited by jblumhorst; 01-20-2013 at 11:08 AM.
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  #13  
Old 01-17-2013
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Re: Anyone know anything about Precision Sail Loft?

Judy,

Would you also not ask the, "WHERE" do you plan to sail etc? Not sure one needs a true ocean going sail if they generally speaking are in area's that are not above 30 knots, or will motor in those cases. Also, what about light days? I have a 130 jib made of literally 3 oz nylon spin cloth! granted max designed wind is 5-7knot apparent going upwind, but that is another story.........maybe you did and I am not seeing this.....I always worry personally about some of the web based places, where one can not order based on the need you will use a given sail for, like my drifter for example!

It should also be pointed out, Med sailor and myself would have a LOT of use of that iron genny sail the last few days, not sure the wind got about 5 knots if at all! must be from the temp inversion, and stagnant air issue locally!

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Old 01-17-2013
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Re: Anyone know anything about Precision Sail Loft?

Check out Quantum sails. Great customer service. Good quality challenge high modulus dacrons and others. Sails made in South Africa. I have a 2 year old main from the. Great sail


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  #15  
Old 01-17-2013
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Re: Anyone know anything about Precision Sail Loft?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
Judy,

Would you also not ask the, "WHERE" do you plan to sail etc? Not sure one needs a true ocean going sail if they generally speaking are in area's that are not above 30 knots, or will motor in those cases. Also, what about light days? I have a 130 jib made of literally 3 oz nylon spin cloth! granted max designed wind is 5-7knot apparent going upwind, but that is another story.........maybe you did and I am not seeing this.....I always worry personally about some of the web based places, where one can not order based on the need you will use a given sail for, like my drifter for example!

It should also be pointed out, Med sailor and myself would have a LOT of use of that iron genny sail the last few days, not sure the wind got about 5 knots if at all! must be from the temp inversion, and stagnant air issue locally!

marty
Hi Marty,


Yes, indeed, I do ask that question right after I ask "what kind of boat do you own"" and "how long have you been sailing?" I do interview my customers extensively about their intended use for the sail. I'd love to use your post as an excuse to write a long post about my sailmaking business, but that's against the rules on Sailnet, so I won't go into detail about my wonderful customer service .

However, it is within the rules of Sailnet for an expert in the sailmaking industry to contribute to the general knowlege, so that's what I did in my previous post. I explained how you can use Challenge's technical documentation to see if a loft's recommendations for sailcloth are close to what Challenge recommends.

As a sailmaker, I immediately noticed that there was a discrepancy between Precision's recommendation for sailcloth on their webpage for a Formosa 41 and Challenge Sailcloth's documentation. My post focused entirely on that discrepancy.

I can't comment about their business model, their sailmaker resumes, or their customer service -- because I know nothing about them except what I see on their website.

About online saillofts:

Sailmaking has changed alot in the last 20 years, with the rise of the internet.

There are several good, reputable online sailmaker's webstores. There are bad ones too, since anyone can pretend to be a sailmaker. At the good ones, you can talk to a real sailmaker about your needs on the phone. Most customers don't buy sails often,and aren't well informed about the complex technical aspects of sailmaking, so it's hard for customer's to figure out who's a good sailmaker and who isn't.

Real sailmakers have names, addresses, learned their craft somewhere, and have verifiable resumes. That's also true of independent representatives for major name brand lofts, like me. We all learn the trade from experienced people in the trade.

In my opinion, a good sailmaker can have an online webstore as well as deliver personal service and advice. The two approaches to customer service aren't mutually exclusive, IMO.

The best sailloft websites uses online webstores as a way to communicate efficiently with a lot of boat owners. I use my webpages to convey a lot of information about sailcloth and construction features. The graphic design isn't very slick (I did it myself and I'm not a web designer), but the content is excellent. I try to use every page to create well-informed customers who can make good decisions.

Here's the most significant difference between an online loft and a full service loft: online sailmakers don't drive to your boat, measure your boat, drive back to the loft, drive to your boat to deliver your sails, or go sailing with you.

If a sailmaker makes two or three trips to your boat, it's a half a day each time. When customers ask me how much I charge to drive to their boat to measure it, I tell them it dpends how far away they are from my shop. If its on my part of San Francisco bay,and it takes me half a day, it's $300 added to the cost of the service. If it's on the other side of the bay, and it'll take me a whole day, and I charge $500 for the service. At that point my price isn't competitive compared to a loft that's located nearer the boat.

[Full disclosure: My name is Judy Blumhorst, and I am an independent representative for Hyde Sails USA and a small business owner]

Last edited by jblumhorst; 01-17-2013 at 02:43 PM. Reason: to clarify
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  #16  
Old 01-20-2013
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Re: Anyone know anything about Precision Sail Loft?

i'm not far from Precisions supposed "home" so i picked up the phone, and talked to "Darryl" who seemed quite knowledgable (in my ignorance, maybe). We talked for quite a while, and he offered me even better prices than they had on their website because i was so local...
He talked with great familiarity about my cruising grounds, so i'm positive he was on the up and up about where he was, etc.
He said that he'd email me a measurement form, and within 10 minutes, i had it, and it's quite professional and detailed looking (i'm looking for a new jib). i was pretty much ready to head up to the boat for the exact measurements his form wants, and i came across this thread...which surprised me.
i emailed him a link to this thread and said that i'd be quite interested in his comments about it.
So...i'll try to get back and let you know what happens!
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  #17  
Old 01-20-2013
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Re: Anyone know anything about Precision Sail Loft?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgan30Sailor View Post
i'm not far from Precisions supposed "home" ...
The cloth is a major cost component of your sails, so it's very important to know what you're getting when you compare price and quality.

Since you live so close, may I suggest set up an appointment to look at one of their finished sails and pick up a sample swatch of the cloth they propose for your sails.

I get free sample swatches from all the cloth manufacturers. I specify Challenge for most of my cruising dacrons and nylon spin cloth, Contender for other nylon spinn cloth, and Dimension Polyant for laminates (and their HydraNet Radial dacron).
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  #18  
Old 01-20-2013
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Re: Anyone know anything about Precision Sail Loft?

I just came across this thread, made me worry for a second. I ordered a new jib and main, they have been professional, helpful and accomadating as well.
They follow up with me and at the moment are making my sails.
I will keep you posted on how it goes.
Bill
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Old 01-20-2013
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Re: Anyone know anything about Precision Sail Loft?

I am glad that a local was able to speak with someone there.

Could you please ask or explain the following then?

1. Why do they state they have a loft but when you go to that address there is nothing there?

2. Why is it when you call directory assistance, there is no listing for the company?

3. Why is it the company has no business license?

4. Why does the company advertise a 3-year warranty but then hidden inside the site it says they warrant absolutely nothing? Yeah, that is a limited warranty I guess.

5. Why must you defer your rights to sue to a court in Los Angeles?

6. Why does a company that supposedly has sophisticated design software appear to have stolen the sail design drawings on their site from other lofts?

I really couldn't care how nice or "knowledgeable" these "people" appear to be. This operation is a sham in every way. My guess? There is one guy named Darryl with a cellphone and that's it. The whole thing is probably nothing more than a front for some unknown Chinese factory.

Buyers, Beware!
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  #20  
Old 01-20-2013
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Re: Anyone know anything about Precision Sail Loft?

I really look forward to hearing the feedback from those who have placed orders and those who are considering doing so.

Do keep us posted!

MedSailor
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