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post #11 of 21 Old 11-26-2012
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Re: ethanol vs. non-ethanol gasoline

Isn't most gasoline sold at marinas ethanol free?

Ethanol has two serious issues. First, its a solvent, so it can't sit long in your system without it trying to dissolve something. Second, it is hygroscopic, and will absorb water out of the atmosphere if left to sit (like boats often do).

In my opinion, it is a total scam perpetrated by big Agri-business. It is sold as a method to become energy independent, but it does not reduce the amount of oil burned at all. It keeps farm employees working anyway, but not productively.

Trust me on this. While several ethanol plants have shut recently, due to high corn prices, those in the ethanol business are there to make huge returns on their investment. I know one personally. They aren't tree huggers though they sing that tune for the press. The unspoken truth about all of our alternative energy initiatives is that capitalists latch on to the emotional environmental zelots and get crazy things funded and laws passed. It can be done so much more efficiently. Warren Buffet doesn't just toss money at problems, he analyzes and places good bets. Our alt energy companies make fortunes, while society gets little but "feel good" in return. If you think this sounds "republican", think again. (sorry for the political bent, its just a fact where they go for the money)

Back to the thread, it seems that isobutanol may be a much better way to go.
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post #12 of 21 Old 11-26-2012
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Re: ethanol vs. non-ethanol gasoline

Obama and his key advisor David Axelrod knew this....and they also knew winning the Iowa Caucus was key to beating Hillary and getting the Whitehouse...Check his record on ethanol voting and the rest of his involvement...say 2003-present...Get the rich corn farmers on board and winning the rest of Iowa is easy...but this is "just politics as usual"..but I also agree that using alcohol for food or fuel is wrong...when it clearly belongs in a low ball glass.

But seriously, this deal has literally made people starve by driving up the price of rice..no one's planting rice because corn's so valuable...and it's wrong. But before it's time to take this to a new thread...I'll say... look what it did to JR's liver for chrissakes...? Your aunt's gall bladder? How are our own ethanol filters doing? oops..off topic again....but some humor was due because this topics a real sore spot with me. Every 2-cycle engine in the country is affected and every hose and gasket. It hurts the little guy.

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post #13 of 21 Old 11-26-2012
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Re: ethanol vs. non-ethanol gasoline

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Isn't most gasoline sold at marinas ethanol free?

No.
Ethanol has two serious issues. First, its a solvent, so it can't sit long in your system without it trying to dissolve something. Second, it is hygroscopic, and will absorb water out of the atmosphere if left to sit (like boats often do).

In my opinion, it is a total scam perpetrated by big Agri-business. It is sold as a method to become energy independent, but it does not reduce the amount of oil burned at all. It keeps farm employees working anyway, but not productively.

Oh yeah. Listen to Al Gore come clean:
U.S. corn ethanol was not a good policy: Gore | Reuters
.

See notes in color above.

Also we have skipped--or perhaps just talked around--the issue of enleanment. e10 requires a different mixture than gasoline; cars adjust for this but outboards cannot. Some loose power from running too lean, others burn plugs (my Merc).

I've added filters close to the carb; that helps.

Also consider vent filters on tanks:
Sail Delmarva: Gasoline and Fuel Tank Vent Filters

And some tidbits here:
http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/20...eparation.html

Ethanol is also quite corrosive if it separates, and aluminum makes a nice sludge:
http://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/20...n-testing.html
In this case we used traces of salt to accelerate things, but later we reduced and then eliminated the salt; the details changed and it took longer, but the story was similar.

Why does this not happen in cars? The useage and the fuel system design are VERY different. IF you placed and autoimotive system in a boat it would run well... but violate a large number of safety rules, mostly centered around having a presurized inboard tank.

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Last edited by pdqaltair; 11-26-2012 at 02:40 PM.
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post #14 of 21 Old 11-26-2012
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Re: ethanol vs. non-ethanol gasoline

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I won't even mention hydrazine.
You got an F16's APU in that 'vette?! Awesome! j/k


Hydrazine is great. Please breathe responsibly. (!)
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post #15 of 21 Old 11-26-2012
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Re: ethanol vs. non-ethanol gasoline

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Originally Posted by pdqaltair View Post
Also we have skipped--or perhaps just talked around--the issue of enleanment. e10 requires a different mixture than gasoline; cars adjust for this but outboards cannot. Some loose power from running too lean, others burn plugs (my Merc).
Bit of a red herring. Setting the mixture on a carb is normal tuning whatever the fuel is. Fuel injection does it automatically, the owner does it on a carb.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #16 of 21 Old 11-26-2012
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Re: ethanol vs. non-ethanol gasoline

Anyone know if BOAT/US is doing anything on the anti-ethanol front that would matter?
I'm currently in Cape Coral,FL and there's 80,000 registered boats in Lee/Collier counties alone...bet there's 8 million lawnmowers and weed-eaters! If all the landscapers in South Florida united it would be on par with the teamsters,UAW and teachers unions combined...!

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Re: ethanol vs. non-ethanol gasoline

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unions ..!

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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Re: ethanol vs. non-ethanol gasoline

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Anyone know if BOAT/US is doing anything on the anti-ethanol front that would matter?
I'm currently in Cape Coral,FL and there's 80,000 registered boats in Lee/Collier counties alone...bet there's 8 million lawnmowers and weed-eaters! If all the landscapers in South Florida united it would be on par with the teamsters,UAW and teachers unions combined...!
There was an article in BoatUS mag last year sometime on ethanol vs. isobutenol. I don't recall it saying that our industry advocate was doing anything about it.


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Re: ethanol vs. non-ethanol gasoline

While touting the ability to run higher compression ratios on alcohol is a valid point, it has no place in this discussion. Did anyone here build their engines? Is there a practical, easy way to increase compression on these engines? Cost? If you start at the ground and build an engine with ethanol in mind, yeah, you can take advantage of the octane rating, but with 10% there's not enough alcohol to bump up the octane level to cover the lean-out condition that it causes. So, in the heat the engine rattles and loses power. Build an engine with 15:1 compression and you can use pure alcohol, but not even premium pump gas. The only viable option is to use a turbo with active electronic fuel management. That ain't cheap or particularly easy, and tends to be aimed at automotive 4-cycle applications.
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Re: ethanol vs. non-ethanol gasoline

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Originally Posted by seabreeze_97 View Post
While touting the ability to run higher compression ratios on alcohol is a valid point, it has no place in this discussion. Did anyone here build their engines? Is there a practical, easy way to increase compression on these engines? Cost? If you start at the ground and build an engine with ethanol in mind, yeah, you can take advantage of the octane rating, but with 10% there's not enough alcohol to bump up the octane level to cover the lean-out condition that it causes. So, in the heat the engine rattles and loses power. Build an engine with 15:1 compression and you can use pure alcohol, but not even premium pump gas. The only viable option is to use a turbo with active electronic fuel management. That ain't cheap or particularly easy, and tends to be aimed at automotive 4-cycle applications.
I was merely countering the statement that alky is "bad fuel". It's actually quite good, just different. My wife's blown Jag and my old, hot rodded Trans Am both loved 10% E-gas. The Jag dialed in a noticeable amount of advance and the T/A stopped pinging on it.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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