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post #21 of 43 Old 12-02-2012
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Re: Follow the ARC

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Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
...

Half the reason is that old wankers on these forums denigrate the new technology like AIS preferring paper, sextants and baring compasses. Quite obviously if both boats had AIS this situation would not have occurred.

But it's not extraordinary. All ships have it, all fishing vessels that go well off shore have it... It's only $500 for a transponder.... But it's the cruisers who are the last up takers of it!

If you don't have AIS buy one.
I guess that is enough MarK I guess that you are making those comments just to get Jon talking but by now you have perfectly understood that he is not against technology but against the kind of false security that induces in some and that can lead to reckless behaviors.

Regarding that almost accident AIS would have done nothing since both boats were seeing each other and even so the guy that should have changed course didn't.

Regarding AIS I live on a fishermen village and I can tell you that nobody has AIS and nobody is going to have it unless it is mandatory. Life is difficult at this time and nobody will buy one if not obliged.

If you expect or trust on the AIS as foolproof mean to avoid collisions you are going to be run down by a fishing boat, like those two guys on the Vendee Globe (neither of the Fishing boats that collided with the Open 60's had AIS).

Note that I find the AIS very useful even if I trust more on the radar. It is a useful toll especially offshore to avoid big ships and to be seen by them. On coastal waters and on places with heavy traffic ships filter the signals of pleasure boats to not have constant alarms (the signal of a pleasure boat is different - Class B) and to be able to follow other ships. So if you think that your AIS is being "seen" by ships in a heavy traffic zone, better be careful because probably you are being "filtered". on this forum, or in other, I don't remember, a Ship Captain explained all about that.

I guess that it is about the ignorance regarding this type of situations and about the unreasonable confidence that a less informed sailor can have about the shortcomings of electronic aids and the danger that represents that Jon is talking about.

I know that it is not your case and I know that you know to what Jon is referring so stop pissing him

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 12-02-2012 at 11:38 PM.
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post #22 of 43 Old 12-03-2012
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Re: Follow the ARC

The more information you have helps you makes the best decision you can. Bring it all on radar, AIS, Chartplotter, GPS, charts, sextant s

You name it i want it
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Re: Follow the ARC

Jon, we didn't get out till 10.

My point about the I ad ap, and yes it's dependent on cell towers, I can usually get reception 5miles off shore, is not. O use it as the main check. We have integrated AIS on our Raymarine as well as our VHF. So TS king of a triple check. Also at anchor or at home when no connected to the Chartplotter I can look at vessels, kind of an interest thing.

To a person who is on Inland waters who can't afford the 300-800 for AIS this may be beneficial, but its accuracy should be checked.

Dave


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post #24 of 43 Old 12-03-2012
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Re: Follow the ARC

I use the Ipad to check AIS occasionally. Particularly, since I have a buddy who transmits and its easier to see when we'll connect. At least half the time that I know he is underway, he doesn't appear on the app/website.

The web/app is a great tool, as long as one recognizes its weaknesses. It relies on land based and ship based receivers to pass along data to the website, so you must be within range of one and then the data must not be accidentally corrupted by the middle man or dropped. The most common error is the data can be very old. 15 to 20 minutes old seems minimum.


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post #25 of 43 Old 12-03-2012
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Re: Follow the ARC

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The web/app is a great tool, as long as one recognizes its weaknesses. It relies on land based and ship based receivers to pass along data to the website, so you must be within range of one and then the data must not be accidentally corrupted by the middle man or dropped. The most common error is the data can be very old. 15 to 20 minutes old seems minimum.Minniewaska
The new ap I am now using Boat Beacon and it doesnt rely on land based observers like Marine Traffic and the longest update is 2.5 minutes which I have seen. I took it out yesterday and ran it side by side with my inegrated AIS on the Raymarine systems and it was perfect.

Dave


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post #26 of 43 Old 12-03-2012
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Re: Follow the ARC

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Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
The new ap I am now using Boat Beacon and it doesnt rely on land based observers like Marine Traffic and the longest update is 2.5 minutes which I have seen. I took it out yesterday and ran it side by side with my inegrated AIS on the Raymarine systems and it was perfect.

Dave
If it does not rely on land based observers, where does it get the information?
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post #27 of 43 Old 12-03-2012
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Re: Follow the ARC

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If it does not rely on land based observers, where does it get the information?-Matundscotbruch
Here is my e mail with the designer of the product. While he doesnt specificall say where the data is from, I had my droid phone on Marine Traffic which is land based and the positions were remarkably different on Marine Traffic from the Raymarine AIS and Boat Beacon which matched all the time.


> Does it really do AIS in real time unlike Marine Traffic.

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The majority of our feeds are direct in real time from the AIS Receivers (over 70%). Our servers are handling over 20MB/s of data arriving. For instance in the UK around the Isle of Wight we get updates from the fast ferries every 2s and their updates appear in Boat Beacon within a second of being received.


All the other data is accurately time stamped at source and collated over 1 minute. On average this is only 30s behind real time and is displayed with the corrected time (and interpolated position) in Boat Beacon. You also have to remember that AIS transmissions from ships are sent at varying intervals from once every 3 minutes to every 2s depending on their status and speed. So for example a ship at Anchor can show a status that is 3 to 4 minutes old. Also the transmissions are not guaranteed and can be easily blocked by passing ships, bridges and island's etc.
I answered an ad on and was one of the first three to so I gt a promo number to download the ap for free. He asked that all I do is evaluate and write about my evaluatuations positive or negative whatever my finding were.

I downloaded it last Thursday on my IPAD 2. It can be downloaded on I or droids. Yesterday was my last day out on the boat till next spring and I tested it for about 4 hours. I have a AIS class A transponder hooked thourgh our Raymarine Chartplotter to c heck the accuracy of the Boat Beacon app.

In the 4 hours I ran them concurently they were identical. The Boat Beacon app has in its data a defined line which tells how lkong since the previous update. The longest was 2.5 minutes while most were updated in 30 seconds.

So far it looks good. I wont be doing more boat tests for a while.

dave


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Last edited by chef2sail; 12-03-2012 at 09:40 AM.
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post #28 of 43 Old 12-03-2012
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Re: Follow the ARC

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Originally Posted by MastUndSchotbruch View Post
If it does not rely on land based observers, where does it get the information?

Quote:
Requirements:

iPhone or iPad with GPS. e.g. iPhone 3GS, 4 or later, with an active Internet connection.
Marine AIS Apps

At $10.49 is could be a good one to check out for local coastal, etc. but need to check how it actually works. It uses shore based stations like Marinetraffic.com that uses receivers in ports.
http://pocketmariner.com/the-boat-be...-on-an-iphone/

If they said how it works more people would use it. But they are treating us like dummies.

Sea Life
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Last edited by MarkofSeaLife; 12-03-2012 at 10:47 AM.
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Re: Follow the ARC

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Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
The new ap I am now using Boat Beacon and it doesnt rely on land based observers like Marine Traffic and the longest update is 2.5 minutes which I have seen. I took it out yesterday and ran it side by side with my inegrated AIS on the Raymarine systems and it was perfect.

Dave
Great reference. I may give it a shot next season.

However, it seems more than unlikely that an Ipad can be software programmed to directly receive AIS signals. They must be transmitting over the 3G network, which would mean it is land based. Try shutting the 3G/wifi signal off at home and see if you get data before and after. Or, try from your living room to see traffic in Narragansett Bay, which you could only get over the internet.

Nevertheless, if they've improved delivery time from the land based receivers to the app, that's a good thing.


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Re: Follow the ARC

Minnie I did that.. It is land based as on a 3g signal. I tried that yesterday. The ujpdate times were really good tough so they must have ad ifferent source than Marine Traffic as the longest time on updates was 2min30 sec.

It maintained a close course with my AIS on the Raymarine network. Marine traffic was noticeably different. Sometime taking 15-20 minutes to update. Not really very useful. I still would use it as my primary unless thats all I could afford and even then understand its limitations in terms of accuracy.


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