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  #111  
Old 12-06-2012
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Re: An Informed Opinion about the Bounty

Oh and by the way Guys i live in Alberta we just had 15" of snow in 2 hours and neg 15 going to neg 21 is just about to hit. Beat that and it is only Dec we still have jan and Feb to contend with lol.
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  #112  
Old 12-06-2012
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Re: An Informed Opinion about the Bounty

Dave dont let the rude people bother you we love and support you bud have a great day!!!
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  #113  
Old 12-07-2012
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Re: An Informed Opinion about the Bounty

Geeze 15" of snow..I am headed for my final sail on Sat.
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  #114  
Old 12-07-2012
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Re: An Informed Opinion about the Bounty

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Originally Posted by Marcel D View Post
Oh and by the way Guys i live in Alberta we just had 15" of snow in 2 hours and neg 15 going to neg 21 is just about to hit. Beat that and it is only Dec we still have jan and Feb to contend with lol.
I woke up to 42F temperatures this morning. You keep that white stuff and cold air up there with you.
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  #115  
Old 12-07-2012
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Re: An Informed Opinion about the Bounty

Adirondack report: 18 degrees, not much snow on the ground yet. Freezing rain predicted for tonight.
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  #116  
Old 12-07-2012
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Re: An Informed Opinion about the Bounty

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
I missed the Weather Channel too, but I'm sure someone can share.
We had a dinner engagement Wednesday evening so missed the earlier broadcast of US Coast Guard--Bounty Rescue, but I stayed up to watch (most of) the 23:00 to 24:00 re-broadcast. The program mostly focused on the CG's efforts to rescue the crew, which were pretty spectacular in the conditions, with a good deal of film of the operation as viewed from (I presume) gun cameras and the like.

There were cuts of comments by two of the members of the crew that had been recovered, an older fellow and a very young man, both of whom described the difficulties of escaping the boat once it had capsized (the spars/rigging were a particular hazard). Both crewmen spoke highly of the captain and of their faith in his judgement, emphasizing that he had given the crew the option of quitting the ship without penalty of any type before they departed. Evidently, none did so. While neither man had any animus for the captain, neither seemed to have much knowledge of the matter of handling a ship, or tall ships in particular, in general or in the conditions. One or the other did note that until the scudding sail split, they were "Okay" in the circumstances, but afterward the ship became unmanageable. That, of course, stands to reason as the scudding sail would have stabilized the ship--more or less--even in the conditions, without which she would have rolled her guts out, and did so until she reached her limiting angle of stability/recovery. Notably, even as the Coast Guards quite the scene many hours after the ship turtled, it remained afloat, just below the surface, under the effect of entrapped air and the buoyancy of the ship's timbers which gives me to believe that she was under ballasted. Otherwise, she would have gone down like a rock. If underballasted, the ship's stability would have been seriously compromised, particularly on so great a hull. Sailing ships of the period represented by the Bounty (near) replica were heavily ballasted, either by stores and cargo or "dead" ballast (e.g. rock), that was discharged when a cargo was taken aboard (discharged ballast was often used to create keys and/or breakwaters such as the breakwater at "Ballast Point" on Catalina Island.)

N'any case, the program did not offer any more insights on what the captain's thinking might have been that led him and his crew to sea before the storm. The graphic of his track did show that he did not make enough easting to avoid the storm as he might have given its northwestward turn but I suspect he was expecting the storm to curve to the northeast, as most such storms do, when it passed Hatteras and so turned southwest above the storm to make for the navigable semicircle and to keep the prevailing winds on his port quarter throughout. That strategy worked until his scudding sail blew out. Absent a replacement, and a crew strong and knowledgeable enough to set it, their fate was sealed.

FWIW...
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Last edited by svHyLyte; 12-07-2012 at 10:34 AM.
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  #117  
Old 12-07-2012
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Re: An Informed Opinion about the Bounty

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Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
.. One or the other did note that until the scudding sail split, they were "Okay" in the circumstances, but afterward the ship became unmanageable. ...That strategy worked until his scudding sail blew out. Absent a replacement, and a crew strong and knowledgeable enough to set it, their fate was sealed.

FWIW...
That seems the main new point and it seems to me hardly believable that with so many sails aboard it was not possible to improvise a sail set up to substitute the blown sail. I believe that the absence of a professional crew with experienced in that kind of ships in the adequate number was the main reason for not being able to replace that sail (or improvise something that worked the same effect). This is obviously not the only factor but could be one of the contributing factors.

Regards

Paulo
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  #118  
Old 12-07-2012
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Re: An Informed Opinion about the Bounty

Studding sails? In those conditions? 40 knots? I don't think so.

They are the sails fully outboard of the courses. Pronounced Stunsails.

They are light weather sails and in modern times I think quite small.
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  #119  
Old 12-07-2012
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Re: An Informed Opinion about the Bounty

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Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
Studding sails? In those conditions? 40 knots? I don't think so.

They are the sails fully outboard of the courses. Pronounced Stunsails.

They are light weather sails and in modern times I think quite small.
Was wondering about that myself. Don't believe that there is any such thing as a scudding sail per se. According to a 19th century sailing manual scudding was the practice of running before the wind in storm conditions. According to the manual the sail used was a reefed fore course or fore topsail or if the wind was too strong under bare poles.
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  #120  
Old 12-07-2012
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Re: An Informed Opinion about the Bounty

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
Studding sails? In those conditions? 40 knots? I don't think so.

They are the sails fully outboard of the courses. Pronounced Stunsails.

They are light weather sails and in modern times I think quite small.
Mark--It is my understanding that scudding sails (usually only one) were heavily built and roped and used in the manner of storm sails to allow a full rigged ship to "scud" before the wind and are/were decidedly different than the outboard light air Stunsails. Of course, I could be wrong...or be using the wrong terminology, but that was a term used by the old fishermen that once sailed the Alaska fishing boats out of San Francisco that spoke of their experiences when I was a boy chasing around the docks in Sausalito.

FWIW...
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Last edited by svHyLyte; 12-07-2012 at 01:09 PM. Reason: Posted before completion.
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