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  #21  
Old 12-03-2012
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Re: An Informed Opinion about the Bounty

I don't think an open letter to a dead person is quite the correct thing to do. I can't really explain it, but it feels a bit dirty.

Maybe it's the way we use language.... Aboriginal people in Australia are not allowed to mention a deceased person and especially not use their name.
I guess we also have guidelines of etiquette... I have criticized the Captain of Bounty in many of my posts, but I would never say: Captain X, Listen to me...

The other thing is the writing doesn't offer up an opinion. It just asks questions of the dead person. An opinion is a statement, not a question. Isn't it?

It's place is in the miasma of the original thread.
Sorry... The morass or the original thread. Can you have a miasmatic morass?

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  #22  
Old 12-03-2012
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Re: An Informed Opinion about the Bounty

Again, and again, in reading the letter it appears the author has suffered a personal loss. Can't that just be respected?

Myself and another member both posted a copy at nearly the same time, although mine was second I still feel somewhat responsible. It was posted simply so that members who did not have a facebook account could read it.

I'm starting to feel sorry that I got involved.

Call it what you want, but, it's obviously about pain and expression. It's distressing that some of us cannot identify that and let it be.
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Old 12-03-2012
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Re: An Informed Opinion about the Bounty

R.C,

No disrespect, So now you get down in the dirt with me and do exactly what I do. PMs still exist and you could have made your points there so obviously you felt some need to publicly state your opinion to try and take me own a peg. You do exactly what you accuse me of Makes you no better than me and me no better than anyone else. Guess you understand now if you can beat them, join them. Directing it to me and singling me out is no different than what I have done. Calling me a hypocrite is no different from what you say I do. Maybe your threshold is higher than mine, but obviously you have one so i see and I appear o have crossed it or tweaked it with you. So how do you handle it. Basically like me. You rush in to post a long wordy diatribe directed at one individual. You can't occupy the high ground if you get down in the trench. I have climbed down on my own free will and decided that my previous approach didn't work so I changed. There are a few posters on here who do exactly the same and i no one stops them. So I see your have now partially joined me, or maybe it is only directed to me and you will climb out of the pit. Either way, your directing at one individual on here is just what you are doing yourself, so I guess hypocrisy rules. I hope you are now taking the banner of fighting hypocracy on Sailnet and will apply to all who post and don't just single me out. Go for it I got tired of seeing my friend Mr Walbridge being vilified as the next thing o Jeffery Dahmler so I have been upset and angry in this thread.

I respect your opinion in many things technical where you obviously have expertise far more than mine. We have met and I enjoyed our conversation together and hope we get to do it again over drinks or a meal. You have been a great source of informstion . That's earns huge respect from me. Doing what you did just now does not. I assume you have felt the same as you have watched me recently in this thread.

So lets just say you re the better person here, most of the time anyway. I applaud your control. I don't process it maybe, or I don't want to maybe, and maybe in this thread particularly. Doesn't really matter as there are plenty on here who don't and get away with it all the time. You will notice that my behavior/ tone has really mainly been in this thread and does not really carry over to others. Maybe you should ask me why privately. The answer may surprise you.

Suffice it to say that my relationship to the deceased Captain and his family was more than professional, circumstantial, and more than just his job as the Captain of the sunk Bounty. None of you unless you have had it happen to you, someone in your family can understand what it is really like to do something wrong, have it cost lives, have it speculated about with the deepest and darkest motives in a public display not be alive to deal with the questions or consequences and leave only your family and a few close friends to watch you get villified and answer what happened in your steed as you were dead.

RC I hope if you ever do something to injure someone no one who has pretended to be your friend or associate of years posts a vitriolic article on a social media site to ruin your reputation in perpetuity and the reputation your loved ones will have to deal with forever. I hope no one camps outside your wife's house with signs. I hope no one follows you to the store and shoves mikes in your face. I hope no one writes caustic things for all to read about you. He didn't sign up for that as Captain of the Bounty, nor did his family or friends and te pressure has been relentless for weeks.

It has been very difficult to watch all this knowing him and his loved ones.
Not easy to hold your tongue and anger as others speculated and took pot shots and ruined him. RC maybe I not process the same
control as you or others, but I stopped being able to take it anymore in this thread about post 20. I apologize or my lack of control.

This man was a humble nice man who erred in judgement and it cost someone's life and his own. Had he lived I know he would have had a hard time living with that. He would equally have had a hard time dealing with how his family has been treated. He was a gentle man who loved the sea, loved the mystery of the tall ships, loved his family and friends and loved seeing the people's faces who he turned on when the got on board his ship or he told the tall tales lots of captains do. He never ever would have meant anyone harm. But tht apparently does not count. I understand he was wrong o sail into the storm.

I am sure, Beleve me as he was slowly dying in the waters of the Atantic that day in his survival suit tht he thought about that, thought about the peril he put his crew in, thought about those who he was leaving behind friends and family and never once thought about himself. That's the type man Robin Waldridge really was. Not some egotistical self inflated fool. He paid the ultimate price he died a broken man. How terrible and how tragic.

Dave

Last edited by chef2sail; 12-03-2012 at 12:17 PM.
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Old 12-03-2012
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Re: An Informed Opinion about the Bounty

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
R.C,

No disrespect, So now you get down in the dirt with me and do exactly what I do. PMs still exist and you could have made your points there so obviously you felt some need to publicly state your opinion to try and take me own a peg. You do exactly what you accuse me of Makes you no better than me and me no better than anyone else. Guess you understand now if you can beat them, join them. Directing it to me and singling me out is no different than what I have done. Calling me a hypocrite is no different from what you say I do. Maybe your threshold is higher than mine, but obviously you have one so i see and I appear o have crossed it or tweaked it with you. So how do you handle it. Basically like me. You rush in to post a long wordy diatribe directed at one individual. You can't occupy the high ground if you get down in the trench. I have climbed down on my own free will and decided that my previous approach didn't work so I changed. There are a few posters on here who do exactly the same and i no one stops them. So I see your have now partially joined me, or maybe it is only directed to me and you will climb out of the pit. Either way, your directing at one individual on here is just what you are doing yourself, so I guess hypocrisy rules. I hope you are now taking the banner of fighting hypocracy on Sailnet and will apply to all who post and don't just single me out. Go for it

I respect your opinion in many things technical where you obviously have expertise far more than mine. We have met and I enjoyed our conversation together and hope we get to do it again over drinks or a meal. You have been a great source of informstion . That's earns huge respect from me. Doing what you did just now does not. I assume you have felt the same as you have watched me recently in this thread.

So lets just say you re the better person here, most of the time anyway. I applaud your control. I don't process it maybe, or I don't want to maybe, and maybe in this thread particularly. Doesn't really matter as there are plenty on here who don't and get away with it all the time. You will notice that my behavior/ tone has really mainly been in this thread and does not really carry over to others. Maybe you should ask me why privately. The answer may surprise you.

Suffice it to say that my relationship to the deceased Captain was more than professional.

Dave
Dave,

I only point his out because you have so steadfastly and vociferously stated the opposite of what you are now doing. Everyone is a hypocrite including me, but when you put yourself up on a pedestal and preach it then, well........ Do as I say not as I do generally looks bad, especially when you are the loudest proponent/opponent.

Personally I found you calling Jan a "blowhard" extremely offensive so I finally had to comment. I found that a quick "rush to judgement"...

I still like you buddy but you have to walk what you talk, at some point...

I have no dog in this fight but do have opinions. Having physically walked around that vessel in the shipyard when it was "being fixed" would give you those sorts of opinions. I won't however come into the trenches because it adds nothing...

I just want to see you start to practice more of what you preach. Coming right out of the gate in this thread calling the captain of the Pride of Baltimore a "blowhard" I found utterly reprehensible, especially from YOU, of all people.....

It is hard to hold others to a higher standard that you yourself are willing to live up to.
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Last edited by Maine Sail; 12-03-2012 at 12:19 PM.
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  #25  
Old 12-03-2012
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Re: An Informed Opinion about the Bounty

There is a major difference between our "toy boats" and that movie prop/tub: Our toy boats actually SAIL. Mass does not equal quality.
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Old 12-03-2012
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Re: An Informed Opinion about the Bounty

If only Ya'll would mount your oppinions with Butyl Tape they would'nt leak so much.
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Old 12-03-2012
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Re: An Informed Opinion about the Bounty

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Originally Posted by capt.aaron View Post
if only ya'll would mount your oppinions with butyl tape they would'nt leak so much.
touchdown!
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Old 12-03-2012
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Re: An Informed Opinion about the Bounty

RC I respect that and we are still friends. It was very hard to read what the Captain of the Pride of Baltimore wrote about your friend and friend of the family. It was over the top and unprofessional IMHO and he was no friend of Robins according to his wife.

Suffice it to say I will from now on stay out of thie Bounty threads as I cannot contain myself in them obviously. Again I apoligize for my overzealous defense of my friend.

I wish on no one what this family has had to endure partly because of the social media sites and the ability for people of today to just reach out and touch people without careing about the results. It is an intrusive society we live in sometimes and when this kind of behavior finds you personally trust me you will not be equipped to deal with it as rationally as you think you will be and certainly will not be able to maintain you gentlemanly status

dave
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  #29  
Old 12-03-2012
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Re: An Informed Opinion about the Bounty

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
There is a major difference between our "toy boats" and that movie prop/tub: Our toy boats actually SAIL. Mass does not equal quality.
Bounty was a XVIII century ship modified replica and of course it has not as good as a sailing ship as a modern one but that is very different to say that the boat could not sail. That boat had circumnavigated and had not done that on its engines. The first circumnavigation was made by Magalhães/el Cano on the XVI century ship and evidently their Naus could sail and I can tell you that they sailed a lot worse than the Bounty replica.

Regarding the Bounty, it was clearly a toy ship like ours in a sense that did not serve a commercial or otherwise needed function. I guess that what was meant was that we are toy sailors and Captains if compared with professional sailors and Captains and that in a sense is true. Of course there are some that play with their toys better than others as it is also true that most professional sailors and Captains would not know how to play with our toys.

Man, I love toys live without toys would be very boring

Regards

Paulo
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Old 12-03-2012
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Re: An Informed Opinion about the Bounty

Of course I was using a bit of hyperbole in inferring that The Bounty could not sail. Anything driven by wind across the water, I suppose, could be said to "sail." The video of this boat in a storm showed me that the definition of "sailing," was quite different on this boat from what we consider sailing on our "toy" boats. The tremendous rolling under bare poles that the video demonstrated, IMO, clearly showed some dangerous design issues. She was barely maintaining a beam reach. Many of the square-rigged ships could make 2 points to weather and could heave-to. It does not look like the Bounty was even capable of heaving to. There is no way I would have stepped foot on that rig anywhere but at a dock. No amount of ballast in that shallow hull could have adequately lowered its center of gravity far enough. In redesigning the 33% larger hull, its draft should have been close to 18' with ballast 33% lower not the 13' that they made it. It was a prop and probably should have been scrapped after using as was the original plan or at least confined to tranquil bays and docks. This boat in no way resembled some of the real square riggers such as The USS Eagle in its ability to sail.
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