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  #11  
Old 12-03-2012
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Re: much has happened

Quite a story Brad. Glad you made it.
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  #12  
Old 12-03-2012
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Re: much has happened

Bene505, can you elaborate a little more on your anchoring details. How big, how long, chain/rode, how deep, what directions, aft/stern/midship?. So, If you where in Long Island, did you get mostly east, south, wind or what. I read you had 400' of rode, was that on one anchor? Others the same? What type of anchors? Splicing, etc...
PLease advise.
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Old 12-03-2012
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Re: much has happened

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Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
That chart was interesting. We recently had spring tides that were 15-16 ft. They were noticeable but nothing troublesome since we have big tidal range here all the time.

What a difference to the devastation the same height caused in NYC.
Yes. We are not at all used to tidal departures of +10' here. Normal tidal range in NY Harbor < 6'.
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  #14  
Old 12-04-2012
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much has happened

Brad--

Glad to hear you fared so well. We were also still in the water in our protected inlet off 3 Mile Harbor, and also escaped unscathed. I count us among the lucky. I had my first boat in Great Kills Harbor in Staten Island 35+ years ago, and the pictures of destruction there were heartbreaking.
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  #15  
Old 12-13-2012
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Re: much has happened

Quote:
Originally Posted by b40Ibis View Post
Bene505, can you elaborate a little more on your anchoring details. How big, how long, chain/rode, how deep, what directions, aft/stern/midship?. So, If you where in Long Island, did you get mostly east, south, wind or what. I read you had 400' of rode, was that on one anchor? Others the same? What type of anchors? Splicing, etc...
PLease advise.
b490Ibis,

Firstly, I like having the boat where the storm isn't. Because I'm already in a good spot -- great holding, not too deep so there a great scope ratio -- this sometimes means taking action a little later, after seeing where the hurricane's track is going.

I search eBay routinely for things that I'd like to add to the boat. So when 2 new FX-125s came up, I bought them (and combined shipping!). Same for a high strength Danforth 90H. I use all-chain for one anchor always. I don't like to have to trust nylon line, but will do so if needed for more scope, after the 150' of chain is out, like when anchoring in 50 feet of water at Block Island. I have a Manson Supreme 60 on the chain now. (It's light enough that I can remove it when on a mooring, so the mooring bridals don't get chafed.)

I also like swinging in the breeze (not a Jordache Jeans reference), letting the boat swing to have the least wind resistance. That means all anchors off the bow. An anchor at the stern seems like it adds too much windage when the wind shifts.

I also apply wrapped cotton towels to the lines, secured in place at the ends and midpoint (of the towel) with wraps of lighter line. There's a good picture of it from last year's hurricane Irene.


This prep was also for a hurricane that only came within about 100 miles.

In my humble opinion, it's the chafe that gets you, as well as the lines getting caught up over the top of the roller when the boat weaves and dodges. But there as people on the forum that are much more expert about this than me; all one can do is try to learn from them.

For this storm, it was: 1) 140 ' of chain on a Manson Supreme 60 to the south east, with plenty of snubber line, 2) 200 feet of heavy line (seen in the foredeck picture) to the east on a FX-125, and 3) 30' chain and 100 feet of line to the south. The anchors were in 10, 7, and 10 feet of water due to the storm surge.

I had to quickly get the shallowest anchor out after the storm passed over, or I'd be calling a friend with a catamaran to get it out. (Dave, in the picture above, built a 32' cat over the winter.)

As it turns out, the stout line seen on the foredeck floats!!! That added to my worries, since I didn't want to cause damage to other boats. But there was no boat traffic at all in this tight little dead end, on a weekday, during a hurricane. After the initial wind shift, the boat sat near it, and then right on top of it for the remainder of the storm. What do you do with about 400 to 500 feet of 7/8 or 1 inch floating line? I believe it's nylon on the outside and poly on the inside. Maybe use it for a sea anchor line? (It's awfully heavy to be carrying for that one purpose.) I hate cutting it up to make dock lines, so I'll probably sell it. Maybe get a school to do a tub-of-war?

The thing to remember when using multiple anchors, is that each individual anchor has to be able to individually hold the boat on it's own without the help from the other anchors, without any other anchor helping, like on it's own, as if the others weren't even there -- individually. (Hope that got the point across!) This type of mooring set-up costs a lot more that the traditional mushroom setup, but it's holding power is phenomenal and it's movable, like for when an hurricane comes nearby. Using these same anchors, I could have holed up in a lot of different places and felt very secure about their ability to hold.

It's mentioned in Chapman's that during the hurricane that went over the NY Yacht Club (1937 maybe?), the only 3 boats left anchored had this same system. All the other boats were on the shore. Of course if this was a real mooring, I'd have the anchors 120 degree apart. But the hurricane had very specific wind directions forecast. Each anchor mentioned above took it's turn holding the boat as the wind clocked around as forecast.

Oh, and I had more long line and another FX-125 on the deck as a reserve. If you have to cut away because a big boat is bearing down on you in the storm, you'll need something for after you maneuver out of the way.

I may have mentioned that I didn't plan on spending the night on the boat (my ride to shore flipped), but was glad I did. The wind was actually ripping droplets off the top of the water, but the small cove had waves of only 6 inches where I was. I'm not sure I could say it was a hurricane where I was. (And that's the point of being somewhere else.) But it was really windy for long time with some stronger gusts. The anchors did their job in a very protected cove.

Regards,
Brad

Last edited by Bene505; 12-13-2012 at 08:18 PM.
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Old 12-13-2012
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Re: much has happened

Well done on the outboard. Sometimes they don't like a dunking.

Boat looks good in the photos.
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  #17  
Old 12-13-2012
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Re: much has happened

Bene - Do you have each anchor secured separately to the boat? It sounds like it but if so, how do you avoid them twisting together without a stern anchor?
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  #18  
Old 12-13-2012
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Re: much has happened

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
Bene - Do you have each anchor secured separately to the boat? It sounds like it but if so, how do you avoid them twisting together without a stern anchor?
I let them twist. By using cotton anti-chafe for a good length along the lines, the boat can twist 2 to 4 times and you still aren't rubbing line-on-line or line-on-chain. But typically after a storm, you'll get maybe 1 "wrap".

To "unwrap", tie you dinghy to a stern cleat after the winds subsides and put it into reverse, swinging the boat back through 360 degrees. Keep the dinghy pulling about 45 degrees aft, so you are keeping tension on the lines and things unwrap smoothly. And lash your wheel/tiller so the aft-most part of your rudder is in the direction if the rotation, so your rudder will help keep tension throughout the rotation.

The most important thing is to make sure your boat will never go over an anchor. That can cause the chain or line to wrap around the anchor, taking it out of play. Sounds scary, but there is a very easy way to prevent this when you are using only 2 anchors (and more anchors of similar scope add extra prevention). You take a quick look at the way the anchor lines spread out from the bow, when the wind is strong enough to pull the lines tight. In a wind direction that pulls on both anchors, the angle between those anchor lines, as seen from above, should be between 110 and 160 degrees for a 2 anchor system. (It's actually over 90 degrees in theory, but I like the padding. And I don't like to approach 180 degrees because it adds extra strain on the lines. If there is a great tidal range, you'll have to factor in the extra slack/tightness depending on when you anchor.) So a quick look can tell you that your anchors will never get wrapped up in their own line, and the 2 anchor system will work. (Again, given that each anchor can handle the boat individually.)

How do you get the 110 to 160 degrees? If over 160 degrees, add scope (usually to the shortest rode). If under 90 degrees, subtract scope (usually from the longest rode).

For two anchors, I usually set the first one well. Then power over to one side with the rudder hard over. (Power to the side where the 2nd anchor's roller/cleat is. That means your initial set will have no crossed lines.) Then lower the second anchor and set it well. By starting off this way, your boat will be pulling on both anchors and you can set the angles (110 to 160 degrees) very easily. If there's light wind, put her in reverse to make some tension and then check the angle -- you had to do this anyway to set the 2nd anchor.

Your mileage my vary, and I still have a lot to learn, but that's what I do.

Regards,
Brad

Last edited by Bene505; 12-13-2012 at 09:10 PM.
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  #19  
Old 12-13-2012
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Re: much has happened

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
Well done on the outboard. Sometimes they don't like a dunking.

Boat looks good in the photos.
Thanks Mark,

Take look at the upcoming Steven Soderbergh film, Side Effects. Our boat is at 16 seconds in the trailer.

‘Side Effects’ Trailer: Steven Soderbergh’s Pharmaceutical Thriller

or here


It was definitely a group effort, with several Sailnet members helping to get the boat ready and to the shoot (DavidPM, CalebD, HugoSalt). The film opens February 8th.

Regards,
Brad
davidpm likes this.

Last edited by Bene505; 12-13-2012 at 09:12 PM.
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Old 12-13-2012
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Re: much has happened

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bene505 View Post
For some reason this pic didn't show up until I signed on this time. It raises another question;

Why don't you have a pin of some sort across the top of the ears of your anchor rollers to keep the lines/chains from jumping out?

I find that a big Fastpin works well and also can pin the anchor in place when it's up in the rollers, to keep it from bouncing around.

I can see that heavy lashing as an addition In Extremis like you were, but as an addition, not the routine procedure.

By the way, nice boat and good work - real seamanship.
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