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Need Input on Insurance Companies

6K views 22 replies 16 participants last post by  outbound 
#1 ·
I'm looking for insurance on a 32 foot 2011 Racer Cruiser to be cruised in the Chesapeake (possibly also do the Delmarva rally in a few years).

So far I've gotten a quote from BoatUS and Marks Marine (ACE American is the insurance carrier for Marks). I have yet to fill out the form for Pantanenius Insurance.

I've had BoatUS for over 10 years on my current 26-footer.

Marks offered better vessel coverage (agreed hull value) and a lower premium rate for their "Yachtsman Policy" than the BoatUS quote I received, and Marks will let me do limited offshore (25 mi.), whereas BoatUS is Chesapeake and tributaries only.

Anyone have any experience with Marks or Pantanenius? I want to make sure I'm not shooting myself in the foot because I'm chasing the more attractive quote from Marks.

Thanks, Leon.
 
#2 ·
It sounds like you've maybe already decided against BoatUS, but for what it's worth BoatUS was incredibly helpful and easy to work with when we filed a claim. Also, it's really cheap to get a coastal rider that will enable you to cruise the coast. We will be lifelong BoatUS customers (granted we're in their area of coverage). If you plan to go international, I have heard good things about Pantaenius from a few folks (check out the account from SV Bella Star - can't paste the post because I'm too green, but you can google it.)
 
#4 ·
I switched to Ace last year because of a disagreement with my prior insurer over a claim. I also switched agents as I felt the previous one wasn't representing my interests. My new broker, actually my old old broker, said Ace is fantastic about being fair on claims. Luckily I haven't tested that yet. Fwiw.
 
#5 ·
We had a policy with Markel for about 10 years but the Premiums got to be right off the charts after Hurricane Katrina and they were demanding a valuation survey every 3 years, which for our boat was not an inexpensive proposition. We switched to Seaworthy Marine Insurance--a Bershire Hawthaway company--and saved 1/3rd of Markel's cost for the same coverage with less frequent demands for surveys. Of course, we have no claims experience either, so the jury's still out on that. It will be interesting to see how the Company does with Hurricane Sandy claims.

FWIW...
 
#7 ·
They say never to have an insurance company that insures (almost) anything without question. Progressive will insure (almost) anything without question. They bet that if they insure enough things, that gives them a larger demographic of customers with other needs, and they'll have enough money upon their policies to insure more random things. But believe me they will hold on to that money as tight as possible.

Sidenote: I think it's wise to always be skeptical about companies with such an abundant amount of money that they can feed new advertisements every week on every channel during every commercial break. It shows that they are not doing all that they can to improve their product/service or provide customers with lower prices. They're keeping that policy premium money as best as they can. It's an automobile insurance company, after-all. By expanding to RV's and ATV's and Motorcycles and then Boats, the reality is those are particular and different vehicles than common automobiles that have regular accidents on familiar roads with witnesses and street signs. Boating is a very particular market, and in my opinion it takes a particular company to focus well enough (and have enough knowledge) on it to do it well.

A google search will provide an overwhelming number of complaints that progressive will not pay claims. Of course, every customer complains through a bad experience so it is to be expected, and you would be able to find complaints about BoatUS and others - but Progressive is by very very far, the worst sounding out there.

Sounds like you have a nice boat and are a serious sailor, and if you admit to the insurance company that you race (which you better, if you have an accident during a race) then I think you should go with a specialty company that handles that well. If you tell BoatUS "racing" is a reason that you have the boat, and they deny you. Then that's a good thing, because you may otherwise be stuck in the future after a racing accident or injury and they will tell you that you were never supposed to be doing that, and they are not responsible to pay your damages. That's not a risk I would be willing to take.

Pop your head into a sailboat racing magazine or website and see which insurance companies are placing ads in there.

BoatUS is a great big generic insurer, but they are HUGE, and to mitigate risks they may not insure your race sailboat unless you want to have a very expensive rate. Their customer service is excellent throughout signing up and any questions you have along the way, I have not had a claim, though. However they are right there when you call them, no recordings, and they have so far been on top of their game with my paperwork and changes to my policy. I have confidence in BoatUS.

I think that you should give BoatUS a shot, they have some perks. But ask one of their specialists about certain concerns you have before you sign with them. Like, exact scenarios you are concerned about coming across on your boat in an area doing something.

Otherwise, a more expensive specialized insurer might be a good choice.

One more thing: I'm not trying to bash Progressive, I can see Progressive as being a fine choice for people who sail/fish/ski on quiet lakes, but due to the size of their boat they are required to carry insurance. But when you're on the ocean in a sailboat which the insurer has never heard of, with a dozen variables affecting your decision making and the conditions you sail in, then a more specifically-focused, true "boat insurance" company is a safer bet.
 
#8 ·
I started with a quote from BoatUS and some of the other big names after researching a bit on sites like DiscoverBoating.com and InsuranceForBoats.org that offer overviews of boat insurance. We ended up with Progressive because we have a really good rate with the multiple policy discount (auto too). We've been with them for years and have never had a boat claim, so I can't really rate them.

However, we'll probably shop around when we upgrade to the next boat since our cruising plans include long distances and much more variety in cruising grounds. Shopping based on rate probably isn't the best bet at that point. As you've found, smaller (and often more expensive) companies seem to offer more flexibility.
 
#9 ·
I had my boat insured with Progressive. I understand they had 1800 claims in New Jersey alone. They were easy to contact, easy to deal with, prompt to pay, after Sandy. I had an agreed value policy, so there were no discussions. Agreed value is a way to avoid surprises and sometimes save a little on premmiums.
A friend Catalina 30 was also with Progressive. He settled, then remembered a few things. They agreed to cover the additional. They just sent me a letter suggesting I cancel my policy since I had no boat and said there would be a small premium refund. Statisticaly 2 out of 1800 is not significant. But I can't imagine the process being easier.
Lou
X Mariner 28
 
#10 ·
Ace is the best. Had two claims in 2008,2009. They settled them fairly and expeditiously. Claims totaled $42,000. They did not cancel me or raise my premiums a significant amount. My experience with Progressive has been good also. They are not marine specialists and they seem to be playing a numbers game. Progressive did not even require a marine survey. Their claims adjuster in my area is good and a marine industry professional. Your local area might be different. I suspect it is hit or miss with Progressive.
 
#11 · (Edited)
BOATUS was wonderful with the only claim I have had with them. Apparently Sandy was a HUGE loss to them and rates are going up :(
A few more Sandy type storms and boat insurance won't exist :(
BOATUS has SALVAGE coverage equal to hull coverage. Make SURE you have that or a salvage award might leave you with nothing left to fix the boat. If your insurance has no idea what salvage and environmental claims even are, let alone have coverage limits for them, you are dealing with a runabout on a lake company ;)
 
#12 ·
For an on going evaluation of insurance service you might want to query
Matt & Jessica. They ran agound on Nov 29th, got hauled in St Augustine and posted
on Jan 7th the insurance company will be sending a check for repairs.
Matt & Jessica's Sailing Page | Experiencing the world while it's still large is their blog. Last insurance company on their cost page is Markel.

Also there is a women up in Puget sound whose sailboat was hit by a power boat, twice as I recall. She took to the internet to get a settlement out of, wait for it,...
BoatUS. Here is her blog, Courtney Kirchoff | a novelist
 
#13 ·
Boat US....Continental

We were side struck by lightning ($12,000) this last summer in Annapolis. Claim went through quickly and full resolution professionally. Was easy to get a hold of 5 minutues after the incident occured. The called Tow Boats US and had the boat pulled immediately...no charge with polict as they wanted it done . Adjuster came one day later and worked details out with the marine elctrician who had worked on many Boat US claims. Work started immediately an claim paid out in less tha 2 weeks. I wouldnt switch just to save a few dollars as customer service was excellent with them. We go offshore to New England for 3-4 weeks every summer. I call them up and they put a rider on my policy which costs $26 for every two week period.

Dave

Dave
 
#22 ·
Did you have experience? Is your boat old like ours? Ours is an 83' S2-11C.
 
#15 ·
We're having problems getting insured because we are new at it, and because the boat we're trying to buy is a 1983 model. We've been turned down several times already, and if we can't get insured, we won't be able to get the loan to pay for the boat. We don't want to lie about our experience, but is there any other way for us to be accepted, other than lying? Any suggestions?
 
#19 · (Edited)
My boat is 10 years older ;)
OTOH I have been sailing since 1970 or so, so no experience worries there. Commonly when buying an airplane that the insurer feels is beyond the ability of the owner, the insurance company will require a flight instructor be aboard for the first X hours flying the new plane. A true marine insurance company should be willing to work with you on a training plan. It could involve hiring a captain for X hours of lessons or taking a course at a local sailing school or ????

EDIT: How insurance worked way back in the day - We called and asked for a rider for Bermuda. When the company started wanting this and that done, we asked if they could hear the radio static on the call. They could. We told them we were already on the way and would be out of range very soon. We got coverage for something like $50 :cool:
 
#16 ·
dsullyec1 - we've had some amazing service from these guys: IMIS Home Page ~ International Marine Insurance Services Because they're brokers, not representatives of one particular company, they have access to many different policies and have a better chance of being able to match you up with one. Our agent there is "Heather" and she's excellent.
 
#17 ·
We'll check it out. Our broker in Kemah wasn't with a particular company, either, and the agency he found that orginally said they'd take us, backed out because of 1. our lack of experience, and 2. the age of the boat. The broker gave us the name of another person to call at a different brokerage...we'll see how that goes. If it doesn't go, we'll try the link you gave us and ask for Heather. Thanks!!! We'll let you know.
 
#18 ·
If you use Heather tell her we sent you. Admittedly, we had some experience when we first started, but we also had an older boat. Heather "gets" liveaboards. Big plus.
 
#20 ·
That's a real plus that Heather understands "aboard living". Paul had experience on Chesapeake Bay when he was younger, and a little in the Galveston Bay, but not a ton. I have no experience at all. We'll see how this new place goes.
 
#21 ·
That's amazing..$50?? Things have definitely changed. :) I admit to not having a scrap of experience, however Paul has, in the way past, been boating out on Chesapeake Bay quite a bit, and he took the 101, 103/104 sailing classes in Kemah, TX several years ago and was sailing during that time. I will be taking the classes probably in April/May so I will be much more sea worthy/knowledgeable then. It's a bit frustrating because it's a catch 22 situation...can't get insurance due to lack of experience; can't get experience due to lack of insurance. ARG!
 
#23 ·
one thing to think about is what you may want to do in the future. Believe Boat US will cover US coastal waters and Bahamas without trouble but difficult farther south or across pond. Likely easier to up grade policy in future to include additional cruising grounds if you are working with the same company and have no claims. May wish to ask your lender and broker who they suggest as insurer. Personally got good info that way.
 
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