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Main Halyards - Back to cockpit or keep at mast?

27K views 51 replies 36 participants last post by  lillia28 
#1 ·
I've been considering bringing my main halyard back to the cockpit. I've thought it would be a nice addition to my new slick Tides Marine track, new mid-boom sheeting, and stackpack. My rigger is giving me the pros and cons of bringing the main halyard aft to the cockpit. Mostly he is trying to persuade me to keep it at the mast ... but I would consider him to be a purist.

I'm working on creating a practical family boat ... I'm a casual sailor with small kids often in tow. There isn't a lot of white nuckle bluewater sailing going on.

I'd like to hear your thoughts. Bring the main halyard back to the cockpit or keep it at the mast? Which do you prefer?

Happy holidays.
 
#27 ·
On my Bayfield 29 (that I mostly single hand) all halyards are led aft. And I hate it. Hate, hate, hate! having them there. Reefing still needs to be done at the mast. And the battens insist on getting caught in the lazy jacks. Raising and lowering the main seems to entail several back and forth trips.

I suppose I could try and engineer a fix to the reefing and lazy jack issues; but I think it would be easier just to leave everything at the mast. Even when things are rolly and uncomfortable I feel OK there (autopilots make single handing much easier and safer, btw). Unfortunately, the halyards exit the mast maybe a foot above the cabin top. Unless I put a winch on the cabin top instead of the mast it becomes a difficult retrofit. I'm not so sure that a cabin top winch at the mast would be comfortable to use, and I worry about unintended consequences. I'm thinking about it, though.
 
#28 ·
I really believe that this is a personal decision, and no single answer fits everyone. The OP is single-handing a large boat with family, so I feel that for him, lines led aft make sense.

I personally, reject lines led to the cockpit for the following reasons:

1. When I race, I want my pit man out of the cockpit. Too many people there already.
2. My boat is 40 years old, and the core is dry and solid. I'm simply not interested in compromising that.
3. I don't want the added friction and trip hazards.
4. My boat isn't that large, and loads so great that I need everything led aft in order to safely handle the boat.

My reasons are right for me, and not anyone else. If I ever buy a different boat, I may re-evaluate the situation and run the lines aft.
 
#32 ·
I really believe that this is a personal decision, and no single answer fits everyone.
Bubblehead is right, there is no one answer that works for everyone. But it goes beyond just what the person wants, it extends to what works on your boat.

I have to go to the mast to release, my lazy jacks, my reefing lines are not run to the cockpit (and even if they were I would have to go to the mast and secure the tack) and when the main comes down I have to go onto the coachtop to take in the slack on my reefing lines which otherwise would strangle the helmsman.

Before making a decision, try it out with crew to the extent possible. Have a crew drop the main using only the halyard and see what happens. Try it in heavy air, try it in light air. After he does this how much does it really help? Did you need to go to mast to get the lazy jacks out? Did your slides get caught on the sail track door? Do your battens get caught in the lazy jacks? The P35 has an unusaully long boom for 35' boat which makes for a larger main (at least at the foot). Not sure if that makes a difference.

Bottom line is you are the only one that can answer this. What works well for one person on one boat might not work for someone else or even the same person on another boat.
 
#29 ·
On my boat, the following lines are led aft: main halyard, cunningham, boom vang, spinnaker halyard, first jiffy reef, foreguy, spinnaker topping lift, jib halyard. Of those, really only the boom vang and foreguy are regularly adjusted while the sail is in use.

I have a boom lift on the boom near the mast, which, while it can be set to a fairly "neutral" position in reality needs to be adjusted once in a while as the wind strengthens and as part of any hoist, reef, and douse process. The outhaul is also near the mast, as are the lines for the second reef. The jib is hank-on and often starts the trip lashed down along the foredeck. Even with all those lines aft I'm going up on deck pretty frequently.

I too mostly sail the boat by myself with family or other guests. Somebody who isn't doing a crew job is always in the way during any operation involve the led-aft lines. Or they're on top of the line itself when I need it, probably asleep, or at least really comfy and not very happy that Captain Bligh is asking them to move so he can access the lines.

You really feel unsafe going to the mast? On my trips to the mast or foredeck, all those lines create a trip hazard. Besides, being on deck is perfectly safe unless you are in the dark or bad weather without a harness and PFD. The shrouds and the mast itself provide great handholds in addition to the teak ones.

I'm thinking of moving most of my lines back to the mast, leaving just the boom vang and foreguy. The deck will be a lot tidier and I can fill all the leaking holes in the deck where the winch and cleats were mounted. I expect I'll go to the mast just as often, but I know that when I go, everything I need will be there.
 
#30 ·
heck out this site and maybe modify you Lazy Jacks to pull back to the mast and under the boom when raising the sail and only deployed when lowering it. This will prevent them fro getting in the way of the abttens when raising the sail. The trick is deploying when using as you can keep them at the mast when getting under way and raising the sail. Once you do that they will be more helpfull. You dont have to buy the EZ jacks to copy the method they do it.

Lazy Jack System - How does it work - EZ-JAX

Dave
 
#31 ·
When I first got my boat it had only one block and line ran back to cockpit...

As I had purchased the boat in fall and hadn't sailed yet I asked if I should run Main Halyard or Jib Halyard to cockpit with the hdwr i had...

I was told (for various reasons reitereted above) that I should run BOTH back AND invest in a jib downhaul setup...Which I did...

As a fair amount of my time is single handing...I found the convienence and safety of cockpit control has cut my trips forward my 2/3s... (I still have to go up from time to time to straighten the rigging) but mostly can address from the cockpit...

Reefing I do BEFORE I leave dock (shaking out on a calm day is easy)

I just recently purchased an auto pilot for next season, will have to see if I suddenly have an urge to run up on deck to man the lines...
 
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#33 ·
Here are my reasons for leaving my lines at the mast:

- My sailing is essentially cruising sailing and once the sails are set, unless something dramatic happens with the weather, nothing up the mast is going to be changed so going to the mast to adjust something is a rare event.
- When I hoist my main, the Stakpac lines have to be carefully lined up to prevent the ends of the battens fouling. This is easy when I'm at the mast and the autpilot is keeping the boat head to wind.
- Reefing from the cockpit is not possible unless you have either single-line reefing or two lines for each reef point - either way that's a heck of a lot of line to have lying around the cockpit. By the time I have a third reef in, I would be knee deep in rope.
- Additional deck organisers, rope clutches and winches provide a whole new list of areas where water could leak into the boat - I have enough trouble already with chain plates, mast partners and hatches so drilling another bunch of holes in the roof is totally a unpalatable prospect.
- A friend recently bought a new Beneteau and all the mast lines are fashionably back to the cockpit and the two banks of rope clutches and two winches take up an amazing amount of space and the lines are always in the way, whether you're sitting or standing.
- My boat is a centre cockpit and the cockpit can be fully enclosed and serves as our main living area in all weather conditions. For us to have to plan our lives around coils of line is just not going to happen.

No, I'm happy to go to the mast every now and then and am not about to make life in the cockpit all about rope. But as has already been said, that's just me, others will differ.
 
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#34 ·
As things stand I have 5 sheets (cutter rig) running into the cockpit. I also have Running backstays (2), lines used to ship running backs(2),stropping blocks(2)and roller furler(1)...all running aft but outside cockpit stowed on boom gallows. I also have an alternate self-tending jib sheet. I don't have my halyards or downhaul run back to the cockpit, but I have reorganized the cockpit so 80% of the things the helmsman needs to get to are in the aft half of the cockpit.
 
#35 ·
A couple of further thoughts...

Jeff H has elsewhere described his system of running his lines aft, and knowing Jeff, I have no doubt it is a very slick system, and works superbly...

Having said that, however, his would likely be the FIRST on any boat I've ever sailed about which I could honestly say that... Virtually every boat I've delivered with halyards led aft really sucked in some fashion, and most definitely did not necessarily eliminate the need for ever going to the mast...

Main complaint is on boats with dodgers, you simply can't see what you're doing. In addition to the winch handling usually being cramped by its proximity to the dodger, one has to keep "backing out" from under the dodger, to see the state of the hoist, or whatever... At the mast, you can be watching everything, as it happens... From under a dodger, you can be flying blind much of the time, which of course is generally a prescription for some sort of trouble... And, don't get me started with halyards and reefing led aft on boats with full cockpit enclosures - there's good reason why they NEVER actually get sailed... (grin)

Sensing halyard tension is SO much easier done at the mast, IMHO...

For offshore, I want my dodger to be as watertight as possible. My boat has a rigid windshield, so it comes close to a hard dodger in terms of remaining relatively watertight, with only my vang control passing through the coaming... Streaming lines aft really leaves the dodger vulnerable in heavier conditions when you have water coming aft on deck, or heavy spray... Whatever openings are provided for the lines aft can admit an impressive amount of water, an can turn what would otherwise remain a relatively dry space into another that's routinely getting doused...

Finally, your main halyard can often serve an important secondary function as a dinghy hoist, or in a MOB recovery situation... Especially with the latter, where the remaining crew on deck might very well be essentially singlehanding - the ability to manage everything at the mast is a virtual necessity, and could be made far more difficult by having to do so from the more "remote" location back in the cockpit...

Given more time, I can certainly come up with other reasons why I don't care for halyards, etc led back to the cockpit... But I'll be hard pressed to think of any IN FAVOR of doing so, that override the simplicity and utility of leaving all that stuff at the mast...
 
#37 ·
i am just finishing up my first year of sailing i have a spirit 23 that i have sailed single handed every time except one.
i am still trying to get everything figured out on what to do when
i am not so much worried about raising sails but i want to be able to
drop them from the cockpit .
the only auto pilot i have right now is a couple of bungee cords maybe
next year i can get a real auto pilot but for now this will have to do .
i am starting to put stuff in place so when i replace the halyards they will run
to the cockpit
im not lazy when the wind kicks up and the boat starts driving in circles it would be nice to be in the cockpit to lower the sails
 
#38 ·
I'm pondering the same set of issues. I mostly single hand. My previous boat had then back at the cockpit. It wasn't perfect but I could keep things under control while raising and lowering the main. My current boat, a Sabre 28, have them at the mast. I like the simpler setup but it was pretty challenging to keep it into the wind while I was at the mast. Is there a trick I am missing or do I need to buy an autopilot? I think I would be happy with the main at the mast if I could reliably/safely keep it headed into the wind when I am single handed.
 
#39 ·
it was pretty challenging to keep it into the wind while I was at the mast. Is there a trick I am missing ...?
That's a really good question, and if anybody has a better answer I'd love to hear it.

Here's what I do: heave-to, ease out the main, and then head up on deck. I do have my halyards run aft but I still need to be on deck when the jib is coming down, or it will end up in the water. So I typically bring the jib halyard with me and cast it off when I'm standing at the mast and ready. The wind pressure and friction are enough to keep the sail up without the halyard made fast, so I can generally pull the sail down by hand and lash it down on the foredeck.

After that I head back to the cockpit where I get the motor started and deal with the main. However I could see dropping the main right after the jib, or even before while it's partially in the lee of the jib.
 
#42 ·
My boat came with the main halyard running to the cockpit, it's the only system I know, and I don't like it. I usually end up at the mast anyway, for reefing, topping lift, or to help the main down. I think I would rather just have everything at the mast, rather than running back and forth from the cockpit to the mast. But then I've never sailed solo. I'm also thinking of experimenting with a single or double line reefing system, rather than the rams horns.
 
#43 ·
we have the halyards run to the cockpit, and one of the winter projects is to rework the reefing lines and run those back as well. IMO it is money and time well spent if you are not just primarily single-handing, but single-handing with pint-sized crew.
I really don't see a significant downside.

Sometimes it can get a little crazy, like on this catboat:





That's a pretty busy clutch farm to manage a single sail.
 
#45 · (Edited)
To the original question: I guess it depends on the size of the boat and the crew number. If the boat is big enough (50ft up) it can be stable enough to someone to be there working with bad weather and if you have more than one able crew that is not a problem and can even have advantages (less friction).

For smaller boats, specially if they are solo sailed or sailed with the help of a wive that is not a good help (some are just better then the husband but that is not what I am talking about), going out of the cockpit in bad weather for reefing or lowering the main is a bad idea.
 
#46 ·
One of the first things that I plan on with the new(to me) boat will be running the main back and installing lazy jacks. The US27 main should be small enough to handle from the cockpit and the PO said that she sails great on jib alone in heavy wind so reefing from the cockpit shouldn't be necessary.

My biggest concern is to be able to easily single hand so that the "stress" on the admiral is kept to a minimum ...LOL
 
#47 ·
I also have a strong track on my mast and the halyard led back to the cockpit. It is excellent for times when you want the main sail to drop immediately (e.g. a squall appears, or whatever). You can just let the halyard go and the sail flakes itself nicely on the boom.

Making my wife deal with the mainsail is not the route to a happy marriage so i am basically on my own as far as that goes.
 
#50 ·
While it sounds like a convenient thing to do and it sure would be nice to not have to make my way up, tethered, with winch handle in-hand while trying to keep the helm locked to keep pointed in the right direction, I can see some problems with lowering the sail or reefing from the cockpit. Single-handing, you can only be in one place at a time. I have everything available at the mast to raise and lower sails, reef, put the ties on the main if lowering completely, adjust the cunningham or downhaul, and hang the slack line. It just seems like a lot of extra lines and things to get fouled for doubtful real benefit and I feel like I'd be going up there anyway.
 
#51 ·
I don't know if a spinnaker would work (for me or the boat). I have the hardware necessary, but a 40' luff and 13' J meas (stem to mast) would make it an expensive experiment. A used asymmetrical spinnaker of the size my boat would take is close to $1000. I'm not racing and it would only gain a couple of knots in really light air. For a drifter I have a 180% (39'luff 23'foot) roller genny. I am concerned about space, in the boat and my bank account
 
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