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  #41  
Old 12-13-2012
Don Radcliffe
 
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Re: Pumpout Costs

Take a look at

Clean Vessel Act | Florida DEP

If they get state/federal money, they are limited to $5. I'd call the DEP and see if Salty Sam's is on their grant list. If so, they would probably be very interested in your receipt for $25.
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  #42  
Old 12-14-2012
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Re: Pumpout Costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by donradclife View Post
Take a look at

Clean Vessel Act | Florida DEP

If they get state/federal money, they are limited to $5. I'd call the DEP and see if Salty Sam's is on their grant list. If so, they would probably be very interested in your receipt for $25.
Good thought Don, but Salty Sam's isn't on the list/in the program. The business is entirely privately owned and operated and can/will charge what it wishes for services. Opinions of the business vary. There are as many praises of the place as there are complaints. I guess the moral of the story is that one needs ask about the cost of a service before requesting it.

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  #43  
Old 12-14-2012
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Re: Pumpout Costs

Having owned a boat-to-boat pumpout service, I can tell you that for a private pumpout business, $25 is on the low end of the price range. And if you have ever spent a day handling other people's sh*t and piss at $25 a pop, you understand that nobody is being overpaid to do it.
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  #44  
Old 12-14-2012
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Re: Pumpout Costs

I feel for you Brian, but as in your other learning experience reported lately (thank God you were not hurt worse) it is a learning experience. I bet next time you will ask first before pumping out, just as you would for the price of the travel lift, or any other service.This one just surprises you. My guess is that this provider had a reason for the high costs other than greed, but who knows.

In the Great Lakes we don't have any option but to pump out. Most are very reasonable at $5-10, almost all subsidized by the state and federal grants. Serves a good cause so makes sense, especially to those of us who use it and know where it would go if the pump out was not available. However, for all those that think the idea of a "free" service makes sense....there is nothing "free"! The states and fed's get there money from us. We may be the beneficary of a "free" pump out, but we paid for it up front. We, and the 99.99% of people that have never, and will never, have a boat with a head on it! Governments are not efficiently run so the real costs are even higher than the reported costs.
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  #45  
Old 12-14-2012
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Re: Pumpout Costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomandchris View Post
In the Great Lakes we don't have any option but to pump out. Most are very reasonable at $5-10, almost all subsidized by the state and federal grants. Serves a good cause so makes sense, especially to those of us who use it and know where it would go if the pump out was not available. However, for all those that think the idea of a "free" service makes sense....there is nothing "free"! The states and fed's get there money from us. We may be the beneficary of a "free" pump out, but we paid for it up front. We, and the 99.99% of people that have never, and will never, have a boat with a head on it! Governments are not efficiently run so the real costs are even higher than the reported costs.
It is obvious from the posting that if the govt didnt subsidize this program that the true cost would be a lot higher. We probably all agree with the concept of non-pollution of our waterways, and if this was a pay for use program, which will cost higher, the participation would IMHO drop. Iit makes sense for there to be a discount provided for by the government as it is for the common good and accomplishes a goal for the common good.

Almost all goverment subsidies on programs, the programs dont benefit the majority of the people, For instance enegy credits on income tax only benefit people who have bought new appliances or solor panels, road and tunnel projects only benefit people with cars.

As Chuckles and Fastbttms have pointed out that the true cost of the pumpout service proabably is close to the $25 Cruisindad paid. Hihs experience should be a teaching lesson to the rest of us to ASK before pumping out what the cost is and not assume it is cheap. Brian sorry you were the guine pig here but thatnks for making us all more aware.

Dave
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  #46  
Old 12-14-2012
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Re: Pumpout Costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
(snippage)
PS I doubt I will ever go there again. I felt hosed.
You WERE hosed, and not with the smaller diameter hose!

Especially if the pumpout station was installed using Clean Vessel Act grant money:
Quote:
The Clean Vessel Act Grant Program (CVA) provides grant funds to the states, the District of Columbia and insular areas for the construction, renovation, operation, and maintenance of pumpout stations and waste reception facilities for recreational boaters and also for educational programs that inform boaters of the importance of proper disposal of their sewage.(Source page)
If the facility (either a pumpout or dump station (for porta potties) was purchased or installed using CVA grant funds, it must state that on a sign, mentioning the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service, Wildlife and Sport Fish Restoration Program or the State agency administerin the grant locally (e.g. California Dept. of Boating & Waterways). If the facililty was installed using CVA grant money, the MAXIMUM fee that can be charged is $5. Additionally, the ranking criteria for receivin grant funds gives higher priorities to facilities which will operate free of charge:PART 85—CLEAN VESSEL ACT GRANT PROGRAM

My home marina is in Ventura Harbor, which is not huge (~550 slips between 3 marinas and a yacht club), but it has no less than four pumpout stations, and 5 or six porta potty dump stations, all of them free of charge, self service (Of course, there's also a mobile service, privately operated, which I believe runs $25/month).

Edit: I thought I had read all the other posts when I posted this, but now I see others had mentioned the program. It's also worth mentioning that the grant will pay up to 75% of the purchase and installation costs, with the entity (private, commercial or municipal) paying the balance. A private entity (like a yacht club) or business can provide their own labor of cost of modifications as making up the 25%.
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Last edited by Brewgyver; 12-14-2012 at 12:55 PM.
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  #47  
Old 12-14-2012
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Re: Pumpout Costs

Wow! Lots of great replies. I am not sure I can answer everyone here, but I will take a shot.

First, Fstbottoms:

You ran a private pumpout boat. Totally different. You provide a service where you come to the boat and pump them out. However, did you ever consider applying for the CVA? THey will pay 75% of the upfront costs, plus 75% of the annual costs for upkeep. Florida alone has dealt out over $7 million dollars for these causes. Their pumpouts under this program have almost tripled.

And please don't take this comment negatively, as it is not meant that way. But if you take a job or create a business doing pump outs, then don't complain about doing pumpouts. Find another job if you don't like handling other people poo.

Dave:

Exactly.

Tomandchris:

You see, therein lies the crux of the matter. You cannot pumpout into the great lakes. You would not want someone else pumping out in the great lakes. The laws prevent you pumping out in the great lakes. Pumpouts are a requirement, set by the government. I also suspect that the reason you only pay $5/$10, is because they took CVA money or are regulated by the state.

However, in order for those pumpouts to be truly used, they must be readily available, operational, and economically acceptable. When any one of those conditions are not met, you create an environment that diescourages proper disposal of waste. Will I still pumo out? Sure. But what about the many other cruisers and boats that are out there? Will they? When you consider that most of the cruisers out there are on a bare bone budget (don't even get me started about the derilict liveaboards), and considering that the typical cruiser will pumpout once a week if not more, you are now looking at costs of $100-$200/month... just for a pumoout. That does not include the marina costs, electrical costs, etc.

My whole point in this whole matter is not that I got screwed (which I believe I did). My point is that we have to stand together to make sure our waterways stay clean. I am a HUGE proponent of pumping out and properly handling waste disposal. That is why I fully support programs such as the CVA and CMP (Clean Vessel Act and Clean Marina Program). THese programs recognize that it is a group effort and that the environment must be created and maintained to promote clean waterways.

Of course Pumpouts are not a economically viable business. If so, they would be everywhere. But clean waterways are good busines for everyone... not just the beach goers and boaters. They are good for the marinas too. Let us not forget, a marina is making money off of the watereways. Clean sounds and bays and beaches are in their best interests too. Promoting those comes in part by supporting pumpout stations and their use. If you charge $25/pumpout, are you promoting their use? Or, are you trying to make money? And if the latter, and if you are categorically against having to spend your own money on a station, why not apply for the CVA grant and mitigate if not eliminate your costs? The way I see it, pumoouts should be a necessary evil on doing business. DOn't feel too sorry for the marinas here. They are making money elsewhere, and much of it based upon these same clean waterways which attract their customers.

Brian

PS Just so everyone knows, Per my conversation with the FL Department of Environmental Protection (DEP), Salty Sams accepted the CVA grant money in July, 2012. The FL website is not updated. I have already spoken with the FL DEP in Tallahassee and in Ft Myers. They asked for the receipt which I provided, clearly showing the price and the pumpout. They are having a meeting regarding this as I type this and we will be following up later in the day, with both myself and Salty Sams. I have no idea how this will turn out for them. I am also doing an article on this which I will publish. But even if they had not accepted the money, I hope everyone can see my point. It is in everyones best interest to make pump-outs readily available, operational, and economically acceptable. DOnt fool yourself. If any one of those are not met, the goal of clean water will not either.
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  #48  
Old 12-14-2012
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Re: Pumpout Costs

Brewer charges $40 for a pumpout in the Rhode Island.
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  #49  
Old 12-14-2012
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Re: Pumpout Costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
Of course Pumpouts are not a economically viable business. If so, they would be everywhere. But clean waterways are good busines for everyone... not just the beach goers and boaters. They are good for the marinas too. Let us not forget, a marina is making money off of the watereways. Clean sounds and bays and beaches are in their best interests too. Promoting those comes in part by supporting pumpout stations and their use. If you charge $25/pumpout, are you promoting their use? Or, are you trying to make money? And if the latter, and if you are categorically against having to spend your own money on a station, why not apply for the CVA grant and mitigate if not eliminate your costs? The way I see it, pumoouts should be a necessary evil on doing business. DOn't feel too sorry for the marinas here. They are making money elsewhere, and much of it based upon these same clean waterways which attract their customers.

Brian
Not to mention I like eating fish/ crabs and stuff that lives in the water. No one wants to get sick with all the food bourne illnesses that thrive on fecal matter ( to numerous to list). There is an old saying..." you dont eat where you ****"

Good points Brian. Remind me you are banned from even approaching the dock of my club without letting me know all involved you are coming....

Dave
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  #50  
Old 12-14-2012
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Re: Pumpout Costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post

First, Fstbottoms:

You ran a private pumpout boat. Totally different. You provide a service where you come to the boat and pump them out. However, did you ever consider applying for the CVA? THey will pay 75% of the upfront costs, plus 75% of the annual costs for upkeep.
In California, the state will not allocate CVA funds to commercial enterprises.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
And please don't take this comment negatively, as it is not meant that way. But if you take a job or create a business doing pump outs, then don't complain about doing pumpouts.
I didnt complain about doing pumpouts. The only complaint I have is about people who feel charging $25 for a pumpout is too much.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisingdad View Post
Pumpouts are not a economically viable business.
Of course they are, just not where they have to compete against free-of-charge municipal or marina-operated pumpout services. These things are almost unheard of in California.
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