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Pumpout Costs

8K views 71 replies 32 participants last post by  fallard 
#1 ·
We just returned from a great trip down the coast. Had a blast in Desoto, Venice, Charlotte Harbor (and Cabbage Key), and FOrt Myers Beach. Really great places for those that have not been there.

However, I want to run something by the forum and get your take. WHile in Fort Myers Beach, we spent most of our time on the mooring ball. However, we wanted to go in one day for water, some supplies, and while we were at it, a pumpout. SO we paid a daily transient and went in.

We got the bill and were shocked... about $125 for the night. WHat frustrated me was that they pump out the boat at the cost of $25/pumpout. THis is on top of nearly $2/foot and $8/per electric hookup. Now, if I was just going in for a pumpout, I would be ok if they charged me something... though I might not completely agree with it. But $25!??

It't not the money, per se, it is the whole point. See, Fort Myers Beach has one of a few Mooring fields put in and sanctioned by the state. They did away with the anchorage because they could monitor it better and keep the water cleaner And come on, let's be honest, they wanted to make money. However, how do you maintain a clean bay when the marinas around you charge $25/pumpout??

I am an advocate of pumping out and managing your waste disposal properly. Nothing pisses me off worse than these boats where people live aboard and dump all around me. It gives all of us a bad name. I know most of you who read this would agree with me. It's grosse and ecologically unsound. However, when the state allows the marinas to charge rediculous amounts of money to pump out, what incentive is there for those that do not hold my opinion of dumping in the water to go to a pumpout? Will I still pumpout? Yeah!! But I guarantee you most of those other boats wont. That is an easy $100/month if not twice that much.

So don't get me wrong... I am not trying to sound tight. $25 surely isn't going to break me. But I believe that when those kinds of fees are charged (even for those who are paying dockage), you create an environment which discourages good boating practices. Instead, why not put up a pumpout station that everyone can access that is free and accessible? If not run by the state, who dictates these laws in the first place, require all marinas to have one and set what they can or can't charge. Consider it the price of owning and operating a marina.

Curious who agrees with me and who doesn't?

Brian

PS THe mooring field in FMB does run a pumpout boat as a service, as does Boot Key. For those that go there, you don't have to pay if you stay on the ball. It does not run on the weekends, only M-F, FYI.
 
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#6 ·
Hey Gary,

This is just north of you in Fort Myers Beach... not that far away (SW Florida).

Believe me, I KNOW the costs down in the keys. Not cheap!!! But that is the keys, and this is Fort Myers Beach. Not putting down FMB, but no comparrison.

BTW, put me off seeing you for at least another 30 days if the biceps heal and PT works out ok. THe dock doesn't even want me lifting a beer with my right arm!! Good thing I drink Jack Daniels.

Brian
 
#3 ·
I've never paid for a pumpout while cruising. Have always got them free with fuel purchase. Philosophically though, since a closed head is mandatory, it seems like price gouging to charge that much. I assume this was a municipal operation and not private.
 
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#7 ·
It is Salty Sams Marina in FMB. And outside of the cost, what really ticks me off is I paid to stay there too. It wasn't as if I just came in for them to pump out my head. But my issue is still that when you charge that kind of a fee for a pumpout, you discourage good boating practices.

WIll I still pump out? Yeah. I will. But what about the other people?? We will easily have to pumpout once a week, and sometimes twice. How does $100-$200 month just for pumpouts settle with the typical cruiser's budget??

Brian
 
#4 ·
Every harbor here in California has free pump out stations I believe and illegal dumping is still a huge problem that has resulted in the loss of many free anchorages in an area that didn't have many to start with.
The Log Newspaper | California Boating & Fishing News - Cleanup-Set-for-Former-San-Diego-Anchorage
The Log Newspaper | California Boating & Fishing News - Dana-Point-Ends-Long-term-Offshore-Anchoring
Charging to dump would seem contradictory with efforts to encourage responsible waste management.
 
#5 ·
$5 in our home marina.
$10 if they stick a damned hose in it, rinse it, and than pump out the water.
The second $5 is what gets me going.
I have gotten to know the dock kids over the years and usually don't pay the extra, but if you were new to the marina, they nail you with it.
I don't know your waters, but $25 seems a little step if you ask me.
 
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#9 · (Edited)
Our summer cruise in 2012...... From Port Credit, Ontario to Gananoque in the Thousand Islands then back to Oswego and spent a month in the New York State Canal System.

Pumpout costs on this trip -
Picton, Ontario - $23.00
Kingston, Ontario - $28.00
Gananoque, Ontario - $28.00
New York State Canals - most were free, some were $2.00. All were do it yourself.

With a 29 gallon tank that comes to almost $1/gallon in most Canadian marinas.

I Love New York
 
#13 ·
Wow - I've never paid more than $10 for a pumpout, and most places it was either free or $5. Many states provide grant money for the pumpout operation and as part of the agreement they make the fees zero or minimal. You're right, at $25 a lot of people will have "incentive" to be dumping overboard at midnight.
 
#14 ·
$5 in my club fuel dock. $10 if they come to your slip and do it ( liveaboards and PB take this option usually)

I have never been charged 25....thats scandalous and counterproductive if you want people to do it. Is he the only game in town? what do others in the area charge?

When we go to the LI Sound I was so happy to see that they take thier clean harbors so seriously, that every town for the most part had mobile boat pump outs which were free.
Mmost boats are on morring up there so it makes sense. They are truly commited to their clean harbors and walk the talk by making it easy to do and no charge.

Dave
 
#19 ·
I'm not sure what everyone else charges Dave. It is sad that I may have to start asking!!!! I have decided a nice letter to Boat US, the City Council, and a few other places is in order. I may even put an article about this in Mainsheet and see if Boat US wants to pub it.

As we seem to all agree, and I have said several times, when they charge that much to pump you out, ESPECIALLY when you are already paying outrageous docking fees for a transient, it is counter-productive to what they want to achieve. Not to mention, they don;'t tell you how much it is to begin with. It's a nudge-nudge, wink-wink, oh yeah, by the way....

Brian
 
#15 ·
Brian-
Your pumpout surprise reminds me of a hot dog cart outside the Javitts Center )convention hall) in NYC. One day I came out of a trade show, saw a cart with no prices posted on it, but asked him for a dog because veryone knows, dogs are a buck or a a buck and a quarter in NYC. Nope, he wanted mearly $4. I said what? I'm a native, I'm not a tourist, I walk up a block toward the subway and every cart is a buck, take it or leave it. He says no, he's $4. I said goodbye and left him holding the dog.

Folks that don't post a price (which is in fact often REQUIRED) and then ambush you afterwards are simply robbers. I'd suggest you write to the town fathers and let them know the marina is being doubly offensive. First by failing to post a price, second by charging twice what is reasonable. Nonsense like that is why franchises are sometimes revoked.


Dave-
"When we go to the LI Sound I was so happy to see that they take thier clean harbors so seriously," Were you on the CT side, or has the North Shore of LI finally gotten their act together? And don't even ask how many of the EPA-listed pumpout stations in NYC proper either don't exist, or will take four hours to reach.
 
#67 ·
... Folks that don't post a price (which is in fact often REQUIRED) and then ambush you afterwards are simply robbers.
There's a gas station near the Orlando airport that does this. They are conveniently located right next to the rental car return, and they have no prices posted. Surprise! That fuel you just bought to top off your rental was about $2.00 a gallon more than the going rate. I live in Maryland but have seen that specific gas station in the national news at least twice (having been fooled twice myself, sorry to say.)
 
#18 ·
I don't think that anyone who is in their right mind would disagree with you Brian. A $25 fee for pumping out is a DISincentive to anyone, rich or poor.
It is a state regulated thing though.
NY state and Connecticut provide pump outs for free to encourage people to use them.
In Maryland I've had to pay around $5 per pump out but the pump out boat in Annapolis is technically free. I always feel that the pump boat driver still deserves the $5 as a tip though.
Florida has an amazing bunch of state legislators. These are the same guys (and gals) who voted to drug test all welfare recipients; a program that cost more to implement than the 'savings' they thought they might get by discouraging drug users. It would not surprise me one whit if they allow marinas to charge $25 or more per pump out in order to create an incentive for the marina operators to install the equipment. Do you ever read Carl Hiaasen's Sunday column in the Miami Herald? The Florida state legislature provide him with plenty of material for his column.
 
#20 ·
I agree with paying the guys that actually do the service a tip.

Hey, I got an idea! How about if I talk the FL state legislature to start doing drug test on the pump out material? Good way to catch those bad guys. Then I can get all my pumpouts promply done for free.... and by the Fish and Wildlife too!!

THanks for the idea, Caleb!

Brian
 
#21 ·
Hellosailor,

Northport, Port Jeff, Doering Harbor, Montauk, Stonington, Essex, Port Judith all had pump out boats free last year.. ( no we dont make that much crap to have to pump out at all of them)
 
#23 ·
Thankfully, we head offshore so often, we only pump out a handful of times per year. Most often, they barely work and almost never empty the tank.

If society wants to make a difference, it should be free and should come to you. Don't get me wrong, I don't think anyone owes us anything. I'm only saying that you can't legislate good behavior, you have to incent it or motivate it.

My poopy pumping props go to Nantucket Harbor. It's free and they will arrive at your boat quickly, with properly operating equip and a friendly operator. Absolutely no reason not to call them.
 
#24 ·
Chef-
That's all "east end" stuff, Suffolk County. Of course, Suffolk County also charges some homeowners sewer tax--when the municipal lines were never hooked up to the houses.

Brian-
If Rick Scott has his usual way, he'd make theboaters pay for the drug tests, the same way he tried to have welfare recipients pay for their own drug tests. Y'all be careful what kind of ideas you plant in his head. Your $25 pumpout will become $100 once they include the drug tests. And it will be mandatory.
 
#26 ·
I agree with you, Brian. Especially considering that the state has already gotten into it and created what sounds like a semi-monopoly there to control water quality. If they're going to do that, they need to finish the job and control pumpout costs. Maybe a nominal fee, like $5 to use the pumpout facilities, if not free.
 
#27 ·
When Connecticut went for a "No Discharge" zone several years ago, it was necessary to provide evidence to the Federal EPA that there were enough pump out facilities that it was actually feasible to have such a zone. I believe this was standard operating procedure when a state wanted to enforce a "No Discharge" zone

Rhode Island got their "no Discharge" zone before we got ours at the eastern end of Connecticut. We followed at our end of the state by establishing the zone starting from the Rhode Island border and incrementally working to the west. I don't know how it worked at the other end of the state.

In our area all of the pump outs that I'm aware of are free. Most--probably all- were at least subsidized by the State. The "free" pump out boat Rob mentioned that serves the Mystic River (including Noank) is funded by the towns of Groton (lions's share) and Stonington to cover the staffing costs. The original pump out boat was a gift from the State. BTW, the Stonington contribution comes from the mooring fees on the Stonington side of the Mystic River.

The pump out boats that serve Westerly (e.g., Napatree Point) and Block Island are also free. I've always tipped them and assume most folks tip as well, because all of the operators I've encountered seem to be a cheerful lot. Let's keep it that way!
 
#28 ·
All marinas in Auckland NZ have free pump-outs - no payment at all, even passing vessels can just turn into the marina, pump their tanks and sail on out. Don't have to take on fuel, don't have to rent a berth, just arrive, pump and leave if that's what you want. Sometimes they are not working, mostly they are.

Mostly nobody helps you, you do it yourself and some places have real sophisticated setups and they man them themselves.

Logic dictates that if the local council wants sailors to help keep the water clean then they must help the sailors by providing the necessary facilities.

But when did logic ever enter the psyche of any local council?
 
#31 ·
That is way better than Sydney Harbour I can tell you. Probably only one in five, maybe less, have pump out and virtually all charge, usually AUD15.00. Of those half only service marina clients.
 
#29 ·
Did I read that the municipality provides a free pumpout?

Several issues come to mind. Why didn't you use the free service while on the ball? They come right to you.
Salty sams doesn't have taxpayer funding. What they have is maintainence & operating costs. The fewer people who use it, the higher the per use cost becomes. Most people use the free service so their cost per use goes way up. They likely don't want the hassle of the pumpout but grudgingly provide it. You won't be buying pumpouts there again and they're likely happy with that.

The best solution...buy a lectrasan. As someone noted here, FMB just dumped 8 million gallons of untreated sewage. So all your do-good efforts are routinely subverted by 'the man'.
 
#32 ·
Here in Maryland it's a regulated 5 bucks, if they sell fuel, the gotta do the nasty too.

Let's do some math - you pull in, you get the pump out. The kid on the dock works your boat for 15 minutes (at Magothy Marina, they ALWAYS flush you until you run clear water, no waste).
Maximum efficiency, 4 boats a hour, 20 bucks.
The marina pays the kid maybe 10 bucks, probably less. The actual cost of the employee is closer to 17 a hour even at that rate - and maximum efficiency is something only dreamed of by efficiency experts.
The gear (which is supplied via a grant or at least cost sharing) costs money. Running it cost money. It's got to be maintained (not provided for in the grant). That waste goes out your sewage line which charges by the gallon.

It's not exactly a money maker. Logic doesn't dictate a reasonable price, the market does.

It's a sail boat, sail it out past the 3 mile once a week and do the dump. Then calculate the price of doing that (diesel, wear and tear, time) and pay the man at the pump.

Or line up the family at 8am and 8pm for the dinghy ride to the head on shore.
 
#33 ·
Chuckles, the minimum wage in Mary Land is $7.25 an hour, about the same as in many states and actually higher than some others. I'd bet the gas monkeys are paid minimum wage, no benefits, and sometimes kept as part-time help to make sure of that. Not $17 but $7.25 or close to it, or perhaps paid only ~$3 an hour like waiters and busboys and others who are allowed to "work for tips".

Perhaps we have some dock monkeys in the forum who can tell us for sure. But $17 an hour? Hell, there are machine shops trying to hire at $12 and burger franchises pay less than $14 for shift managers.
 
#34 ·
We pay our Dock Monkeys $10 per hour.

So it costs the club really $15 per hour once you have included uneployment insurance, benefits etc. Rule of thumb in my business is that Benefits/ Taxes/ Contributions usually adds between 30-33 % to the actual wage you pay in terms of actual cost of the emplyee to the company

Dave
 
#35 ·
Cost for pumpout at my marina is free and $5.00 if they come to the boat in your slip. Also free to those that are transient. Your experience is just another example of sheer gread. An opportunity to gouge and people will do it. Greed overrides any logical thinking such as serving a purpose for the good of the environment.
 
#36 ·
In Jersey pumpouts are free, there's also a pumpout boat called BaySweeper that comes around to the marinas and to popular anchorages out on Barnegat Bay. The pumpout boat is free but it's customary to tip the operator $5.

What's interesting is how it's funded
The CVA Program stations are mostly financed by federal grants, through the federal Sport Fish Restoration and Boating Trust Fund, which is derived from excise taxes on fishing equipment, motorboat and small engine fuels, and import duties. Matching funds are provided by New Jersey's "Shore to Please" license plate fund.​

And the reason why a Republican governor is behind an environmental program - it's good business for the state.
"This program plays an important role in the protection of New Jersey's waterways by giving boaters convenient options for properly disposing of sewage and wastewater," Commissioner Bob Martin said. "Governor Christie and I are working hard to improve water quality in New Jersey, especially in Barnegat Bay. This type of program makes a big difference in that effort.''

Keeping the state's coastal waters clean is vital to marine ecosystems and to the state's $40 billion tourism industry. There are about 180,000 recreational boats registered in the state. Every year, fishing provides enjoyment for more than 800,000 people, while providing a $1.4 billion dollar boost to the state's economy.​

You would think Florida would recognize the same economic motivation and have access to the same Federal funds.

The quotes are from the Ocean County Department of Planning web site.
 
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