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  #11  
Old 12-20-2012
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Re: What happens when you fly the spinnaker in heavy air?

Still, just a little more "railmeat" way aft, and who knows?? They mighta lasted another *forty* seconds before doing the face-plant.

And they can save the video, and attach it in about 30 years when posting under the general topic, "Things that should've killed you when you were younger but didn't"..
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  #12  
Old 12-20-2012
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Re: What happens when you fly the spinnaker in heavy air?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nolatom View Post
Still, just a little more "railmeat" way aft, and who knows?? They mighta lasted another *forty* seconds before doing the face-plant.

And they can save the video, and attach it in about 30 years when posting under the general topic, "Things that should've killed you when you were younger but didn't"..
No, I don't agree with you on this one.

Those two guys are professional racers training and the boat that is filming them is the one from the coach. I posted some more information on a post in the interesting sailboat's thread and not to saying the same thing again I will just post it here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
That is a great video that was posted on another thread by James Wilson but as this thread seems to be the local where those that like fast boats hang around, here it is:



Not a very frequent figure on a Figaro II that is a solo racing boat and therefore with a bigger tolerance than a boat designed to do full crewed racing.

These are no amateurs but professional racers testing the boat limits. They are followed not by a reporter boat but by their coach that is filming for analyzing the performance and errors later with them. I guess they had a lot to analyze that day

They explain the accident:

They where training at the EMC Training (Training Center Mediterranean).

On the boat Xavier Macaire and Yves Le Blevec going at 15 knots downwind with a 35K wind. They put up their small spinnaker and quickly pass to 20K speed. "Normally Macaire says, the Figaro, it's manageable on these conditions ..." Except that in this case, the operation resulted in an involuntary spectacular figure, the kind it is usual in multihulls.

The mistake? "We had not moved all the equipment to the back of the boat and we had to sail well downwind to stay away of the coast," said Macarius. "So it was difficult for Yves to unload the bow." Good result.
Regards

Paulo
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  #13  
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Re: What happens when you fly the spinnaker in heavy air?

You guys act like you’ve never pitch poled before. If you think that a little more weight trim aft would have corrected the situation, you might want to consider moving back to the JAM classes. They pitch poled due to simple physics – velocity at the mast head must equal velocity at the hull at all times. Slow down the hull by sticking a wave and you will either pitch pole or dismast. Sailing with a bow up attitude (the goal of all that weight aft) helps in getting the boat up on a plane and maintaining the surf. To not stick that particular wave, you would have to be able to have a bow up pitch angle of some thirty degrees – not going to happen. The helmsman needs to steer to avoid deep troughs or haystack peaks. I don’t race 7/8 frac kites but it looks to me that they are using a heavy air runner. They have that sail choked down, jib up to deflect and moderate wind into the kite and not a super tight vang. The only other thing they could have done was slow the boat down by reefing the main or using their shy kite – but that would be slow and not the objective of the video.

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Re: What happens when you fly the spinnaker in heavy air?

Ah, good, I can stay forward then ;-)
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Re: What happens when you fly the spinnaker in heavy air?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
Averaged 135 n.m. a day, that is great mileage for a 30 ft. boat.
Yes, specially considering that it is a 20 year old boat. In fact that design was amazingly modern for the time and many said that would not be a good boat for solo sailors. In fact regarding the first boats made, 22 years ago, they finish to mount a mast with less 1.5m and take a bit of sail area.

The definitive version is from 1992 and it is a Finot/Berret design, as the first one.

The Figaro II is also a great design (2003) from Marc Lombard

Marc Lombard


La Classe Figaro Bnteau

Regarding the Figaro I, almost all of the greatest solo ocean racers of today won the main competition (composed by several races), La solitaire du Figaro.

Here you have Michel Desjoyeux, 2 times winner of the Vendee globe wining it back in 1992:

http://www.ina.fr/sport/voile/video/...figaro.fr.html

and here a young Frank Cammas, winning it on 1997:

http://www.ina.fr/sport/voile/video/...figaro.fr.html

The two that are on the head of the Vendee Globe, side by side on a Drag race, leaving all behind, belong to a knew generation, the one that raced already with Figaro II. Armel, that is older, raced also with the Figaro I, he was second on 2000, but that's with the Figaro II that he won, in 2003 and 2010.



François Gabart is unusually young to be racing for the win on a Vendee Globe , in fact he is relatively young on Open 60, and is the only one that had not won that race. The best result was second in 2010, beaten by Armel

However he was the 2010 France solo offshore champion (he won, also in Figaro, the Cap Istanbul
 race).

The Figaro has been the boat that has formed all offshore solo sail champions. To win the Solitaire du Figaro or to be France solo offshore champion a sailor has to be a professional one and a dam good one. Only the best can do it, the competition is incredibly hard and as you can see on that movie they train seriously, with a coach filming their sailing to study mistakes and improve performance.

In recent years there are more than French racing on the Figaro II series, many good other nationalities solo sailors had come to learn and compete. Among them a Portuguese, a winner of several mini-class races and transats that had completed his first year with mixed results. In fact what makes that boat an extraordinary boat for learning is the complexity and possibilities of sail regulations that makes, regarding that, a mini racer look almost like a cruising boat.



This is also a class with many professional women competing, the more known are Sam Davies or Jean Gregoire but also Anna Coebella, Isabelle Joschke, Joanna Tannyeres or Elise Garcin that we can see here coached in bad weather sailing by two more experienced sailors. Look also at how this little boat can go upwind with 45k wind and look also at the relatively big sail area that the boat can keep up with those conditions.



Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 12-20-2012 at 03:53 PM.
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Re: What happens when you fly the spinnaker in heavy air?

What a great boat!

The French are so much more advanced than the Americans in solo racing. Here, sailing is not a very popular sport. There is very little solo racing, almost all teams/crewed boats. The sport is regarded as elitist and irrelevant to the majority of the population. The overwhelming majority of racing in the U.S. is around-the-buoys club racing, on short windward-leeward courses, instead of point-to-point long distance ocean racing.

In France, it appears the solo sailors are national heros (like our football or basketball stars).
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Old 12-20-2012
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Re: What happens when you fly the spinnaker in heavy air?

That's the first thing I thought,we're going to have to take a reef now! I think my boat would have exploded when he put the spinnaker up.
Brad
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  #18  
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Re: What happens when you fly the spinnaker in heavy air?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
...

In France, it appears the solo sailors are national heros (like our football or basketball stars).
Yes you are right about that. I think all started truly wit Eric Tabarly and the man was not only a great sailor but had charisma. He received the highest state honor that was normally attributed to heroes and certainly the population shared the government views about that.


I guess these guys that fight alone with the ocean deserve a lot more status as heroes than football players

Today I think the favorite of the French, that comes after Desjoyeux (the two times winner of the Vendee Globe), is Frank Cammas and with good reason. Not only the man hold the record of the fastest world circumnavigation (beaten by Peyron already this year) has won the VOR70 being a rookie in the race. Besides that he won the last Route du Rhum (transat) sailing alone the monster trimaran that was used to beat that circumnavigation record, a thing that even the crew of the boat had doubts it was possible. I guess that he only have to won the Vendee globe to enjoy the same status as Taberly. Even I that I am not French confess a huge admiration for the guy, that is a modest smiling small guy with a huge interior force.

And now you have another favorite, the smiling kid, François Gabart that if manages to beat all the experienced racers on the vendee Globe will be a big case of success.

in what regards sailing I guess French even open an exception in what regards their nationalism (to be soft) and have a huge admiration for Sam Davies and before by Ellen Mac Arthur. Both were more popular in France than in their country.

So yes, French like sailing and most of all ocean solo racing. That is the right stuff for heroes

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 12-20-2012 at 05:58 PM.
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  #19  
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Re: What happens when you fly the spinnaker in heavy air?

Was it my imagination or did I hear the video boat rev it's engine to keep up as soon as the sailboat popped the shute? It looks like they had the right idea, the boat was going faster for a few seconds.
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Re: What happens when you fly the spinnaker in heavy air?

We saw the finish of the 2008 Figaro in Brittany and participated in their parade. What a thrill.
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/1...15082369563041

Moe
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