Production boats- justified bias? - Page 19 - SailNet Community
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post #181 of 265 Old 12-29-2012
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Re: Production boats- justified bias?

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I think I could learn to live with that RM1260.

I think I'd prefer that "structure" in something other than galvanized steel though - that has a proven history of problems. I think I'd pay the price for aluminium or SS or something better.
The structure you are talking about is only the keel structure. I sailed the previous model the 1200, a great boat that is used by the French mainly as a voyage boat. The stability is really outstanding. The RM are around for many years and the fact that they had not been affected by the crisis, having increased sales and the very high resale value (if you can find one) are a measure of the solidity and quality of their boats.

There are not many around, if compared with mass production boats but they are everywhere even the smaller models. Some blogs:

La baltique en RM 10.50: Arrivée en Finlande, en voilier ou en camping-car ?
Pikourous au soleil

Sabay Dii

AMENAGEMENT | LES AVENTURES DU VOILIER "TIMELI" RM 10.50

Les aventures du voilier Kalinu

Le blog de su cantu 'e su entu.over-blog.com

Pingouin Tropical

Le bateau - bel ami

Tranquila 2009 -> 2011

juin « 2007 « harem

Here you have the smaller model:


23/09/2010 - RM 10.60 sur le Grand Pavois 2010 por Voilesnews



Regards

Paulo
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post #182 of 265 Old 12-30-2012
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Re: Production boats- justified bias?

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.....Seriously are there production boats in the mid-30 to mid-40 foot range that stand out in your mind for reasons good or bad --.....
How about the old Hunter Cherubinis? The 37 cutter looks like it would make a nice passage boat in that size range and they have some serious followers. I sailed a friends 33. It was a nice ride, although, I recall fairly tame conditions.


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post #183 of 265 Old 12-30-2012
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Re: Production boats- justified bias?

Continue to be in awe of the experiences of our senior members but have a question. Given some of us head south early November and north come hurricane season to satisfy the insurance pukes what's your suggested tactic for the typical cruising couple when it gets sticky. ?Hoving to ?Running with series drogue. Please speak to "modern" sloops/solents v. cutters/ketches. In my limited experience if there is adequate searoom dropping everything - deploying a drogue and waiting it out below when there is only two aboard is safest. Going on deck only to check for chafe and make sure nothing shook loose seems to be best. Would think the overly broad sterns and the fact the current generation of production boats float on the water instead of in it make either tactic more problematic. See alot of boats with no trysail nor storm jib. On many of the production boats noted in this thread seems difficult to rig these sails. Is is safe to be dependent on a triple reefed main and rolled up headsail?
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post #184 of 265 Old 12-30-2012
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Re: Production boats- justified bias?

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.... .... See alot of boats with no trysail nor storm jib. On many of the production boats noted in this thread seems difficult to rig these sails. Is is safe to be dependent on a triple reefed main and rolled up headsail?
A mass production cruiser comes rigged for what most people use the boat: Coastal cruising, simply be causes it is less expensive to rig it that way and anyway most people would not need more than that so, why waist money?

There are some production cruisers, like the Rm and the Allures and other voyage boats that come already with a cutter rig plus a place for a removable geenaker or code 0 on a furler. Boats like that point to clients that want boats already prepared for blue water cruising, so that makes sense but, off course, makes the boats more expensive.

Almost all modern cruisers of 36ft and over have the needed stability and can be adapted for blue water cruising. If you want and ask for that, the factory or the dealer in conjunction with the factory, will do it. That can assume a fixed cutter configuration or more commonly a removable textile stay with a tensioner that can be mounted in seconds or even be mounted before bad time arrives (just some seconds). On that stay you can mount a smaller front sail (if you have mounted on the furler a big genoa) or a storm sail.

The ones that use the boat only in coastal condition with an occasional small passage use many times a stormbag sail, or the american equivalent, to mount over the furled genoa if needed.

Regards

Paulo

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post #185 of 265 Old 12-30-2012
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Re: Production boats- justified bias?

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See alot of boats with no trysail nor storm jib. On many of the production boats noted in this thread seems difficult to rig these sails. Is is safe to be dependent on a triple reefed main and rolled up headsail?
There's new technology and old technology and its up to you what you want to go for.
I have been sailing all my life and the new technology is vastly superior IMHO.

Even if I was sailing the Antartic I would still have the same sail rig as a modern production boat, better than mine only in that I would want in mast furling for the main.


Mark

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post #186 of 265 Old 12-30-2012
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Re: Production boats- justified bias?

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Even if I was sailing the Antartic I would still have the same sail rig as a modern production boat, better than mine only in that I would want in mast furling for the main.


Mark
... interesting.... I'd have thought with potentially harsher conditions one would not necessarily want the added potential complication.

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post #187 of 265 Old 12-30-2012
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Re: Production boats- justified bias?

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...
Even if I was sailing the Antartic I would still have the same sail rig as a modern production boat, better than mine only in that I would want in mast furling for the main.


Mark
That seems really a bad idea to me. A lot of weight up on the mast in bad weather when the sail is almost all furled in, taking away stability when you need it more and.... all things that can jam will jam one day. What would you do with a big sail up in bad weather without any means to bring it down?

A furling boom is a better idea. if jammed or malfunctioning you can always take the sail down and when reefed the weight of the sail will be down, not up in the mast.

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Re: Production boats- justified bias?

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... interesting.... I'd have thought with potentially harsher conditions one would not necessarily want the added potential complication.
It's not a potential complication compared to sending people on deck in a storm to stuff around with trisails and storm jobs. The weight aloft is negligible.

Anyway a modern boat the storm tactics include the engine. Older boats don't because their power to weight ratio is worse.

What the old guys couldn't do was motor in a storm for 48 hours so they had no option but to sail. Now there's a myriad of options and the furling main adds to those because the sail can just be out a smidgen, half the area of a trisail, or whatever is wanted.

And there is increased safety with LESS complication as there's no three reefs to all tangle.

The only proviso is the furling main wants to be in good order, not a decade old.

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post #189 of 265 Old 12-30-2012
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Re: Production boats- justified bias?

IMHP most of the furling problems are owner caused IF for no other reason the time necessary to use the systems in adverse conditions is NOT put in until its to late ?

The Cal 29 came with a first generation hood stoboom which is supposed to be the worst thing ever made

The wife and myself took are time getting to know it during the first season, put it good working order and it performance is great and i would think the new booms must be really good



I spliced in a new line following Knotheads excellent instructions and made sure all the blocks were good



Once you mark the topping lift for the happy angle the sail can be rolled standing in the cockpit in 15 seconds to a size that balances out with the Genoa and the boat gets happy and just tracks
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post #190 of 265 Old 12-30-2012
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Re: Production boats- justified bias?

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A furling boom is a better idea.

Paulo
I disagree.
I have used them and hate them. Most boats with curlers have in mast. There's more than one reason, mostly because they fail less and are much cheaper. They are not production boat type equipment they are super yacht rich buggers stuff.

But that's an argument for another thread. I'm not into that one.

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