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  #131  
Old 12-30-2012
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Re: Mooring bouys

One should be careful pushing for legislation to address this issue. Those "Faberge' daysailors" can make a safety argument and point to the investment they made in their property. They probably make an investment in their local government representatives campaign fund too. Next thing you know, you'll be prevented from anchoring within 500 yards of a mooring field, for fear of dragging into them.
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  #132  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
I'm not really clear about the laws concerning "ownership" of the seabed. Is it federal law? State law? Local law? Who actually has the legal right to claim bottom rights? To issue permits for things like fish farms, or weir nets, or docks that intrude on waterways?
The OP was asking about BC. In Canada the Federal government controls the water and the Provinical government controls the ocean floor. The Coast Guard has jurisdiction over the waterways but the Department of Transport regulates moorings.

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  #133  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
One should be careful pushing for legislation to address this issue. Those "Faberge' daysailors" can make a safety argument and point to the investment they made in their property. They probably make an investment in their local government representatives campaign fund too. Next thing you know, you'll be prevented from anchoring within 500 yards of a mooring field, for fear of dragging into them.
On that notehttp://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1389116/.

Quote:
Some of the houseboats' most vocal opponents live on Angus Drive, whose large million-dollar homes have unobstructed views of the bay. "I don't like looking down every day at that," said Angus Drive resident Steve Smith, adding that the effect of the houseboats on his view is driving down his property value. As far as he is concerned, the boat owners are essentially squatters who are taking away from other people's ability to enjoy the bay.
http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/br...service=mobile

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  #134  
Old 12-31-2012
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Re: Mooring bouys

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post

At Perry Creek perhaps 20% should not be there but this anchorage is managed by the residents of Vinalhaven, a tough lot, and I seriously doubt it will change. Could they make the permitting process tougher with more "justification" like "Is this a storm mooring for a resident of Vinalhaven or Northaven?" Sure, they could, but this is island life and you will NEVER get or understand the small island politics nor penetrate it or dictate what or how they should or should not manage their waters....

Are "destination" moorings an issue in Maine? In the big scheme of things I would have to say no. I say this because we have HUNDREDS of places to anchor. If you "must" visit Perry Creek or The Goslings, and feel "entitled" to do so then you can use the moorings until the owner comes along as this is the "unwritten rule". Even at Perry Creek you can still anchor just as you can at the Goslings... You may not get the most "prime" spot but you can still anchor...

A catch 22 I'd say.....
Perry Creek is still a favorite anchorage for us living nearby. I've seen more destination moorings placed in there, especially in the last few years. I believe the destination moorings are a higher percentage(I know so many of the owners, they live nearby) but agree, if anything, they increase the number of boats that can safely spend the night. I will agree again, that owners refer to these as "storm moorings", even when they are not.

Overall though, as you say, these moorings are only in a few pockets where there are no local regs(they're not local working harbors), and your right and room to anchor is alive and well on the coast of Maine.

I've been telling sailors for years, Pondering a More Lasting Presence on the Coast | Maine ,... use these destination moorings.

The owners that place them have taken your anchoring space hostage, the least they can do is lend them out.
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  #135  
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Re: Mooring bouys

Just to keep the analysis complete, its been proven throughout time that individual ownership of land has been better for sustainability. When you own it, you don't over harvest or pollute, because you want it to be there for your use again. In a communal environment, you are concerned that the next user will take everything, so you do so first. Or, polluting becomes less a concern, if you're never coming back.

I'm just adding to the discussion, I believe there could be some reasonable guidelines around this. These guidelines should be set by the locality.
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  #136  
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Re: Mooring bouys

Our biggest issue is abandoned moorings. You can't anchor near them, you can't put a mooring near them, and you can't use them because they are in crap condition at best. My mooring is one of 6 in front of our club and only ONE other one is safe to use. Like mine, it was put down last spring. I chase people off them on occasion - not for "ownership" reasons but because they are unsafe for anything bigger than an Opti.

We have a spring project planned to remove all the junk gear and put down one or two good ones for guests of the club. I would like to see a basic permit/sticker process where if the sticker is over X years out of date the gear is removed.
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  #137  
Old 12-31-2012
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Re: Mooring bouys

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Originally Posted by Coquina View Post
Our biggest issue is abandoned moorings. You can't anchor near them, you can't put a mooring near them, and you can't use them because they are in crap condition at best. My mooring is one of 6 in front of our club and only ONE other one is safe to use. Like mine, it was put down last spring. I chase people off them on occasion - not for "ownership" reasons but because they are unsafe for anything bigger than an Opti.

We have a spring project planned to remove all the junk gear and put down one or two good ones for guests of the club. I would like to see a basic permit/sticker process where if the sticker is over X years out of date the gear is removed.
A possible solution is using private enterprise to maintain mooring areas. Thinking about Port Jefferson/Setauket Harbor on Long Island, NY, Brookhaven town gives permission for marinas to place and maintain moorings in the designated areas. With this setup, the mooring placer has incentive, both financial and legal, to keep them in good condition. IMO they do hog up too much space BUT at least they are kept in relatively good condition and will not foul the bottom with old junk (although in the thick mud most abandoned moorings will disappear in not too long a period of time). An old buddy of mine owns one of the marinas and I know for a fact that he keeps the moorings in good shape.
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Last edited by smurphny; 12-31-2012 at 10:22 AM.
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  #138  
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Re: Mooring bouys

Marina and city owned moorings ARE maintained because they don't want to get sued if they break loose. I am talking about a guy that puts a mooring down on his own and has long since moved away, sold the boat, died, or otherwise couldn't care less about it now. Human nature being what it is, they generally don't remove them. Throwing a heavy anchor over the side is one thing, but prying it back up out of the mud is a very different thing!
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Re: Mooring bouys

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
What would those strict legal grounds be? Strict would imply you can cite something that references this?
Maryland DNR summarizes mooring placement rules here and by design or accident makes no mention of existing moorings: (www,dnr.state.md.us/boating/srmbuoys.asp)

Of course, there may be something in the actual regs that is not covered by the summary, but remember this is a hypothetical.

In the end, none of us can count on regulations, laws, or changes to them to really help out. The best that we can hope to do here is establish a sense of community values and hope that social pressures will do three things:

1) Limit the wanton placement of destination moorings

2) Establish who exactly the "Jackwad" is: the guy who places the destination mooring in crowded anchorages, or the guy who uses it without permission.

And, since it's rarely possible for the cruiser to know if a given mooring is either secure or a home base -

3) Encourage those placing moorings to do a really good job of marking them.


Wouldn't it be nice to see this?

"Private mooring 40ft-max. Use at your own risk. Leave your phone number if you go ashore"

Last edited by Coyo7e; 12-31-2012 at 11:22 AM.
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  #140  
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Re: Mooring bouys

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coyo7e View Post
Maryland DNR summarizes mooring placement rules here and by design or accident makes no mention of existing moorings: (www,dnr.state.md.us/boating/srmbuoys.asp)

Of course, there may be something in the actual regs that is not covered by the summary, but remember this is a hypothetical.

In the end, none of us can count on regulations, laws, or changes to them to really help out. The best that we can hope to do here is establish a sense of community values and hope that social pressures will do three things:

1) Limit the wanton placement of destination moorings

2) Establish who exactly the "Jackwad" is: the guy who places the destination mooring in crowded anchorages, or the guy who uses it without permission.

And, since it's rarely possible for the cruiser to know if a given mooring is either secure or a home base -

3) Encourage those placing moorings to do a really good job of marking them.


Wouldn't it be nice to see this?

"Private mooring 40ft-max. Use at your own risk. Leave your phone number if you go ashore"
I don't really see where that citing gives our hypothetical jackwad any options. In fact, this sounds more like it would limit said jackwad from placing a mooring that interfered with another:

Quote:
Also, the arc of the swing must not impede or obstruct ......, or otherwise hinder the orderly ....... use of waterways by the general public. (Unrelated references removed)
While the majority of this section refers to interfering with access from land or nav channels, it seems to me that it would also prevent one from placing a mooring that interfered with the orderly and legal placement of an existing one.
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