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  #71  
Old 12-28-2012
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Re: Mooring bouys

I once fouled a mooring anchor with no buoy attached , in a popular anchorage. It was a concrete filled plastic container with bits of steel pointing out of it. I tied it to my bow, untangled my anchor from it, then sunk it in over 400 feet of water.
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  #72  
Old 12-28-2012
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Re: Mooring bouys

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
When I asked the govt for a map of private water leases for moorings, they said "We dont give leases for private moorings."
So the seabed is public property for the use of everyone and putting out a mooring doesn't mean you have ownership or first use of it.
Climbing over someone's rail to physically dispute someone on your mooring, makes you a sitting duck, with both hands occupied.
If I put out a ball, chain, permanent mooring etc.. assuming I paid for them all I do, in fact, own them. However I do not own the water-space or real estate my "anchor" sits on. Correct?

Assume for the moment I do own them, does leaving them in an area that is otherwise public mean no one else can use it? For instance, when hunting, and you leave your tree stand/blind on public land just because its yours doesn't mean your the only one who can use it. Etiquette dictates you shouldn't but the law says you may.

Confusing issue for sure.


Brad
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  #73  
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Re: Mooring bouys

Does putting a mooring in a one boat bay mean only you can use that bay? The law says no.
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  #74  
Old 12-28-2012
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Re: Mooring bouys

So that marina over there is in a spot I want to use. I should be able to tie up for free right? Why can't I take anyone's slip I please.? I mean after all we all own the water how can that marina be taking up such a prime piece of underwater real estate....? How can that fisherman place his trap there what if I want to anchor there and he is "impeding my right to navigation".....

Fact: Transport Canada issues mooring permits TP 13585 E . Some moorings don't even require the approval of the "Minister" (moorings that fall under Annex A) moorings that fall under Annex B would require the full approval process. If you don't like this fact take it up with your government and get them to stop issuing or allowing these moorings.

Taking the "law" into your own hands or being a vigilante is wrong in any country. These moorings, according to Transport Canada and numerous other Government resources, have a "legal" and Government sanctioned right to be there, if the rules are followed.

Whether one likes this or not is beside the point because it IS supported by the Canadian Government. Just like here in the US if you don't like it, talk to your representatives and get the laws changed. Why so many feel the need to become a Vigilante when they disagree with the laws of their own country is always amusing behavior to me..

Another point I came across are that some Provinces have granted leases to the submerged lands or ceded control to local governments so the law in Canada seems not a lot more "cut & dry" than it is here in the US. Here we have 50 states and thousands of towns where the submerged lands regulations can be different.... The submerged lands in the US are under each states control and the states usually cede control to the local towns to manage at their discretion. NH is one of the few states that does a large part of the submerged lands management from the state level. Course they only have a few miles of coastline to manage.

The laws in Canada, while different, still allow for "moorings". If you don't like that fight to change it LEGALLY not as a VIGILANTE....
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Last edited by Maine Sail; 12-28-2012 at 08:05 PM.
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  #75  
Old 12-28-2012
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Re: Mooring bouys

Our yacht club has a long standing 'water lot lease' that essentially means we have control over the waterlot that the docks and slips occupy. AFAIK that's a requirement for any kind of structure, even a float home, for example.. but possible mooring permits and/or rules for marking the buoys that are laid are all that's required for a buoy..

That's not to say that there aren't plenty of floating 'camps' anchored in remote inlets without proper leases in place.... foreshore or waterlot...
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  #76  
Old 12-28-2012
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Re: Mooring bouys

Quote:
Originally Posted by KIVALO View Post
If I put out a ball, chain, permanent mooring etc.. assuming I paid for them all I do, in fact, own them. However I do not own the water-space or real estate my "anchor" sits on. Correct?

Assume for the moment I do own them, does leaving them in an area that is otherwise public mean no one else can use it? For instance, when hunting, and you leave your tree stand/blind on public land just because its yours doesn't mean your the only one who can use it. Etiquette dictates you shouldn't but the law says you may.

Confusing issue for sure.


Brad
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Whats confusing about it, it seems simple to me...lets substitute the name of your boat for the mooring apparatus.

If I anchor KIVALO... I paid for her in fact, own Her. However I do not own the water-space or real estate my "anchor" sits on.
Correct
Assume for the moment I do own KIVALO, does leaving them in an area that is otherwise public mean no one else can use it? For instance, when hunting, and you leave your tree stand/blind on public land just because its yours doesn't mean your the only one who can use

So do you find it confusing if you anchor your boat and I came along and decided to hang out on it. Would that disturb you?

The answer is self evident I think.

Dave
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Last edited by chef2sail; 12-28-2012 at 08:31 PM.
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  #77  
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Re: Mooring bouys

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Whats confusing about it, it seems simple to me...lets sumstitute the name of your boat for the mooring apparatus.

If I anchor KIVALO... I paid for her in fact, own Her. However I do not own the water-space or real estate my "anchor" sits on.
Correct
Assume for the moment I do own KIVALO, does leaving them in an area that is otherwise public mean no one else can use it? For instance, when hunting, and you leave your tree stand/blind on public land just because its yours doesn't mean your the only one who can use

So do you find it confusing if you anchor your boat and I came along and edcided to hang out on it. Would that disturb you?

The answer is self evident I think.

Dave
You make a good point however I think I can counter it. You don't own the parking lot yet no one is allowed to enter your car without your permission.
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  #78  
Old 12-28-2012
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Re: Mooring bouys

Lots of different regs in different parts of the USA and Canada. Here in the PNW people are supposed to get a permit for a buoy but it seems like less than 50% do. I don't tie up to buoys (although I would in an emergency) because I don't agree with using someones property without permission. Even if I had no qualms about it I still wouldn't use a buoy I didn't know anything about because I wouldn't sleep all night anyway so what's the point? In the little bay in front of our place (we have a buoy) there were 12 buoys in September (2011), there were 4 left in May, they all drifted away at some point during the winter with NO BOATS tied to them. I watch boats come in and tie up to ours, and others, all the time and just shake my head (no, I don't row out and tell them to move, but I would if I knew it to be unsafe).
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  #79  
Old 12-28-2012
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Re: Mooring bouys

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agri View Post

My personal mooring is very well marked, and I don't use other peoples moorings regardless of if they are marked or not.
As it should be with some common sense exceptions. There are places along the Maine coast with "transient" moorings placed by people who like to stop and enjoy anchorages but don't use them as their primary mooring. There is a SHYC (Seal Harbor Yacht Club) mooring in the anchorage at Baker Island. It is labeled SHYC. It is often used by non members. No one really cares. If it is empty, pick it up. If not drop your hook. There are unmarked balls in locations that would not be permanent locations by virtue of their remoteness. We know the moorings. We stop and have lunch. Might even spend the night if no one shows up by 4:00 pm. We also know when we are entering a mooring field that is home port for private moorings. Those are marked and obviously were put there to provide a home for their owner. No one will object to finding a boat safely tied to their mooring if the party using the spot is available and appreciative enough to say, "Thanks", then move if necessary. I have made some friends by extending their stay because I was tied up someplace else. Friendly, responsible, appreciative mariners are welcome. If you insist that you have a right to my mooring because it was empty when you arrived, we may have a disagreement. I haven't met that dope yet. #228 in SH is rated for a 40' boat. It is inspected and the lines have double chafing gear. It is a double bridle. The location is exposed enough to provide a bit of sea motion over night if it is blowing from the south. There are several balls labeled SHYC in the harbor, too that you can use. Just stop at the yacht club, tell them you were my guest and pay the $20.00 (I think?). There is plenty of depth at the dock to pull along side.

Come down and visit. There are much better places to spend the night than in Seal Harbor. I almost never sleep aboard at my mooring but move to a nearby anchorage if I want a "night out".

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  #80  
Old 12-28-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
So that marina over there is in a spot I want to use... Fact: Transport Canada issues mooring permits TP 13585 E . Some moorings don't even require the approval of the "Minister" (moorings that fall under Annex A) moorings that fall under Annex B would require the full approval process. These moorings, according to Transport Canada and numerous other Government resources, have a "legal" and Government sanctioned right to be there, if the rules are followed
The marina will have a water lease so therefore has a right to be there. You will also notice in both of my posts I mentioned unmarked moorings which legally have no right to be there. I'm not advocating any kind of vigilante justice, just a more of what I see as a common sense/help out your neighbor approach. I will concede that my views on property rights and owner ship differ from a lot of peoples but that is a subject for a different forum.

I stand by my original statement, if the mooring is unmarked and unused and you feel safe using it, use it.

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