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  #81  
Old 12-28-2012
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Re: Mooring bouys

Its seems the objection and resultant sense of entitlement to use another's property, has to do with the permanency of a placed mooring. No one believes you can use my car, because I temporarily left it in a public parking lot, or my bicycle because its on a public rack. But some believe you can use my mooring? I might even support a regulation that only allowed one to be placed for a defined period or that requires the owner to actually lease the land (seabed) that it is on. However, you have no right to use it, just because such a regulation doesn't exist.
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  #82  
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Re: Mooring bouys

On a cruise of the East coast last year; my wife and I had several problems with moorings. We were unfamiliar with the areas, and went by our charts to locate safe anchoring areas. Many times, we arrived at a marked "anchorage", only to find it completely taken over by mooring balls. There was little or no room left for safe anchoring, and we sometimes ended up having to anchor in poor holding or deep areas. Many of the moorings were obviously rarely or never used.

I started anchoring in the mooring field when there was no other choice, but only used a mooring once in a remote bay, because there was no safe anchorage nearby, and it was nearly dark.

I think provisions should be made for safe anchoring in historical "anchorages".
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  #83  
Old 12-28-2012
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Re: Mooring bouys

Quote:
Originally Posted by okawbow View Post
I think provisions should be made for safe anchoring in historical "anchorages".
It's a bit better lately, but around here we 'lost' a lot of decent anchorages, esp the one-or-two-boat coves to fish farms. Many have moved on but I wonder about what's on the bottom after they leave.

We also have a lot of historical boom grounds, now abandoned but it's always a crapshoot dropping a hook in those areas.. you could easily end up hooked on an old chain, a 100' length of steel cable, and old winch bed....
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  #84  
Old 12-28-2012
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Re: Mooring bouys

Quote:
Originally Posted by KIVALO View Post
You make a good point however I think I can counter it. You don't own the parking lot yet no one is allowed to enter your car without your permission.
Right.

So there are two ways of looking at it.
1- I put my own mooring down in public water in MD where there isnt ownership by a government entity ( say a town like in Maine). I dont own the water like you said ( I dont own the public parking lot), but I do own the mooring ( my car). What right do you have to use it? You can anchor where you want, but the morring ( my car ) is my property

2-Mooring is put down by me in a governement controlled water area, ( town in Maine for example). You dont agree with the fact that governments should be allowed to regulate the free water and do that. I actually understand that argument and think they should provide for at least some free anchor space and when it gets full its over. What right do you have to use my mooring ( my car)? There are legal ways to disagree with the town which stipulated the moorings, and if you lose. you lose.You see situations like this all the time . In DC the stadium is in a regular neighborhood. On game days no one in the neighborhood can find a place to park. They instituted resident zone parking where only residents are able to park. The streets are free to use, but parking is only for residents, or in public parking lots

Main thing here is that the mooring is my property. If I give permission you can use it. In an emergency I understand. All other times...it is mine. Ipaid for it...you should stand clear.
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  #85  
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Re: Mooring bouys

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Right.

So there are two ways of looking at it.
1- I put my own mooring down in public water in MD where there isnt ownership by a government entity ( say a town like in Maine). I dont own the water like you said ( I dont own the public parking lot), but I do own the mooring ( my car). What right do you have to use it? You can anchor where you want, but the morring ( my car ) is my property

2-Mooring is put down by me in a governement controlled water area, ( town in Maine for example). You dont agree with the fact that governments should be allowed to regulate the free water and do that. I actually understand that argument and think they should provide for at least some free anchor space and when it gets full its over. What right do you have to use my mooring ( my car)? There are legal ways to disagree with the town which stipulated the moorings, and if you lose. you lose.You see situations like this all the time . In DC the stadium is in a regular neighborhood. On game days no one in the neighborhood can find a place to park. They instituted resident zone parking where only residents are able to park. The streets are free to use, but parking is only for residents, or in public parking lots

Main thing here is that the mooring is my property. If I give permission you can use it. In an emergency I understand. All other times...it is mine. Ipaid for it...you should stand clear.
I think you may be under the impression I am advocating one way or another. I'm not, I'm asking a question of the group.

It would seem the answer, legally speaking, will depend on what the local laws are. No?
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  #86  
Old 12-28-2012
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Re: Mooring bouys

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
... to fish farms. Many have moved on but I wonder about what's on the bottom after they leave.
Roger that Fast. Based on what they leave on shore I can only imagine what would happen if I anchored. We were in (well almost in) Adventure Cove (historic cove where Capt. Gray wintered and built a small ship) by Tofino last year and the remains of a fish farm littered half the bay and shore. We had to anchor in the entrance to the bay to stay away from all the gear. Herriot Bay inner harbor was the same.
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Re: Mooring bouys

There are plenty of rules governing moorings, probably even in Maryland, so the thought experiment below may or may not be realistic depending on jurisdiction, but I think it gets to the heart of the matter:

Chef's pretty adamant that he owns the mooring but not the swing radius. Ok, fine. So in retaliation for his appropriation of public waters that I want to anchor in, but cannot, I'm going to place a mooring 10 feet from his at a time when his boat is absent.

My mooring in this scenario is legal, but Chef is denied use of his.

Now what?
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Re: Mooring bouys

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
If the tackle fails, you did the owner a favour , by making sure it failed while his boat was not on it while he was ashore. A good shot of reverse gives it a good test.
Allowing greedy people to take over public anchorages unchallenged, barring others from using what is a public asset, is simply irresponsible.
Brent is entitled to his opinion, but the notion that destructively testing someone else's property is a favor does not make sense to me.

In our area, mooring locations are adjudicated by a State-appointed Harbormaster with due consideration of a number of factors. Allowing anchoring within a mooring field at individual discretion is illogical.
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Re: Mooring bouys

Quote:
Originally Posted by KIVALO View Post
I think you may be under the impression I am advocating one way or another. I'm not, I'm asking a question of the group.

It would seem the answer, legally speaking, will depend on what the local laws are. No?
Whether the mooring is legal will depend on the local laws.

Whether you use personal property at your will...nope

You can anchor where you want, You cant confiscate personal property
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  #90  
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Re: Mooring bouys

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coyo7e View Post
There are plenty of rules governing moorings, probably even in Maryland, so the thought experiment below may or may not be realistic depending on jurisdiction, but I think it gets to the heart of the matter:

Chef's pretty adamant that he owns the mooring but not the swing radius. Ok, fine. So in retaliation for his appropriation of public waters that I want to anchor in, but cannot, I'm going to place a mooring 10 feet from his at a time when his boat is absent.

My mooring in this scenario is legal, but Chef is denied use of his.

Now what?

Good point, I would imagine we both cant be on the mooring on the same time, since they are so close, so whoever is there first gets it.

BTW Thats usually not an acceptable risk for most and is the reason why when you think about that reasoning it isnt used used or done. Why put your mooring so close to mine when if I am attached to mine yours becomes unusable. Thats why people keep them boat lengths apart in the real world. Nice hypothetic, but fails the real world test of logic.

If you do it, Thats a risk you or I will take. You still cant use my mooring tackle.
(Ill make sure to leave a dinghy attached to the mooring from now on.)
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