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  #31  
Old 12-28-2012
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Re: Feeling Foolish and Discouraged!

Yeah if there is one thing I have learned since getting into boating its this ... there are always boats out there with owners who are desperate to get rid of them. It isn't like the real estate market where the biggest expense is taxes, where owners can graze some cows or get renters to cover the cost, boats are nothing but useless money holes that depreciate every year and the only way to stop the bleeding is to sell them. Your money is highly sought after and there are always plenty of boats out there looking for new s̶u̶c̶k̶e̶r̶s homes, it isn't like there is a Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac out there helping people achieve their dream of boat ownership, and there is very little competition among buyers for boats. Boats are toys, the first thing people sell when they get into financial trouble.

No need to feel foolish, just move on to the next boat. There will be plenty of time to feel foolish after you buy a boat.
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Last edited by wind_magic; 12-28-2012 at 07:03 AM. Reason: Edit
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  #32  
Old 12-28-2012
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Re: Feeling Foolish and Discouraged!

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Originally Posted by wind_magic View Post
There will be plenty of time to feel foolish after you buy a boat.

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  #33  
Old 12-28-2012
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Re: Feeling Foolish and Discouraged!

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Originally Posted by Kalina-Lona View Post
....What has been your experience with using Brokers? Knowledgeable individuals must be a bonus....
This answer varies widely. Very widely!

I've had some luck with this strategy. If you have a particular manufacturer that you're interested in, then contact your closest dealer and see if they have a used boat broker on staff. They will want to show you their own inventory first, but will be very knowledgeable about virtually ever boat their company made that is on the market within reach and are happy to arrange the purchase of another. I've also found it useful to have a relationship with that dealer after you own one of their products. They want to keep you happy in the event you upgrade one day.

If you only want them to help with their product, make that very clear from the beginning. A used broker will ultimately want to sell you something and feel the work they've put in should allow them some kind of loyalty. I agree with their assumption, as long as it is clear upfront. You always have the right to change brokers, but understand that the original may feel like you aren't worth the effort, if they feel discarded. Just be clear how you intend to work with them, narrowly or broadly.

Also, be careful. While you may engage the broker to find you a boat, they technically work for the seller, unless you have a contract that says otherwise. A buyer's broker contract is rare. Even with one, there remains a subtle conflict of interest. They only get paid if you buy. A good broker will focus you on the best buy, but they still hope you buy. A broker that is very knowledgeable in the make/model can help you with specific differences between models years, motors, things to look for, etc.
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Last edited by Minnewaska; 12-28-2012 at 08:38 AM.
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Re: Feeling Foolish and Discouraged!

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Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
...
Dont fall in love till its in your slip, before that you can play the tough man game.

This is the same principal in purchasing a house. I learned it when I began investing. Because there are too many things that can happen to a deal that can make it go south.

This is my strategy;
Make your list's-


Begin with feelings, wants, needs, and desires. Then there is the price range.
As you make your list's you will see what you can and cannot live with or without.
The perfect boat exist's, but sometimes you have to go with the needs list first, and the wants and desires that are included are just a bonus to help you make your boat your own.

After looking at too many vessels, they all start beginning to go together so keep a spiral on the ones you are interested in that way you can keep the specs straight.

Narrowing it down to three. Go back to the list you first began with and refresh in your mind what was important to you and compare to your three you have picked. You may want to revise your list before comparing.

This is how I would get the big picture on a purchase to see what would serve me best in a transaction.

Fees can get expensive so I really don't wan't to waste time on a transaction that won't, can't happen. If you can, give yourself a way out in case if the deal starts to look too flimsy.

It is a buyer's market indeed.

Just a few days ago I went looking at some boats. There was everything from the perfect hull, mast included, free to, it's ready to sail, we just wanna walk; 41'er, decked and bleemed needs skipper to sail only $8k.

Happy hunting!! Talk to everybody!
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Last edited by bwalker42; 12-28-2012 at 09:08 AM.
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Re: Feeling Foolish and Discouraged!

I found out several years ago that you treat all large purchases (houses, cars, boats) as a strictly business decision. Do not "fall in love" with anything until you own it. Take the emotion out of the deal and negotiate hard. Don't forget to stick to your principles and budget. Back in the early nineties, my wife fell in love with a house and just had to have it even though we already had a nice place. I told her if we could buy at a certain price, it would work. We bid $44,000 less than the listed price, negotiated a little and ended up getting it for $36,500 less than the list price. Did the same with my boat. Got close to my top price I would pay and to make the deal work, the broker tossed in half of his commission plus the winter rental. Don't listen to the brokers that will tell you your offer is "insulting". It's only insulting to them because their commission will be lower.

Good luck!
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Old 12-28-2012
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Re: Feeling Foolish and Discouraged!

This is why most societies/governments have contract laws.

And the rest have guys with baseball bats. But frankly, these days a lawyer is cheaper than a pro with a baseball bat.
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Re: Feeling Foolish and Discouraged!

Oh, and don't forget the old Sunset clause!
Not often used and brokers do not like it at all. When I put an offer in on a boat (or house, I have bought more houses than boats) I always say this offer is open for 48 hours. That's it. It makes the broker work, it makes the vendor make a decision, and it cuts your contractual liability in Offer and Acceptance. Then in 48 hours you can move on... Broker knows it too, as does the vendor.

Of course there are other negotiations where its good to leave an offer on the table... A low one, perhaps. But then they might hold that offer till they get something better...
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Re: Feeling Foolish and Discouraged!

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Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
Oh, and don't forget the old Sunset clause!......
The art of negotiation is to always keep options open. Sunsetting your offer is a good idea, as long as it is just that. You get your options back. Expiration of the offer, not a suggestion that you won't buy or won't pay that price, if they don't accept it now. If you want to continue a negotiation, its important not to allow the counter-party to successfully call your bluff.
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Re: Feeling Foolish and Discouraged!

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Originally Posted by primerate84 View Post
I found out several years ago that you treat all large purchases (houses, cars, boats) as a strictly business decision. Do not "fall in love" with anything until you own it. Take the emotion out of the deal and negotiate hard. Don't forget to stick to your principles and budget . . . . the broker tossed in half of his commission plus the winter rental. Don't listen to the brokers that will tell you your offer is "insulting". It's only insulting to them because their commission will be lower.
Agreed, except for the commission part. I'm a full time Realtor, I don't cut commission. Once there is money on the table one party will almost always get emotional and cement the deal. If I cut commission I wouldn't be able to afford to support my habits - sailing, travel, good food, decent clothes . . .
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Re: Feeling Foolish and Discouraged!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalina-Lona View Post
My thoughts and search are going to focus on the Catalina 27, there are a few in the Niagara area...1980-1984...well equipped and priced Ok.

What has been your experience with using Brokers? Knowledgeable individuals must be a bonus.
Built, serviced and sold boats for 22 years. Brokers are commission driven, and don't fool yourself - most are living from deal to deal. Most likely don't have a big bank account, unless their other half has a solid job, benefits & pension plan.

I recommend with confidence -
Ewan Campbell in Midland - Ewan Campbell has been selling sail since 1972. Starting with Grampian Marine in Oakville, moving to Port Credit to sell Tanzers, Hughes & Express, 2 years with CS Yachts & then to C&C Yachts until 1990, Ewan has helped new sailors learn the ropes and experienced sailors move up. Moving to Midland in 1990 to start a second career as a broker earned him the title of Georgian Bay's sailboat specialist. A veteran of European cruising, an Atlantic crossing & numerous Virgin Island deliveries he is also an active racer in Midland and in the annual Georgian Bay Regatta. You can reach Ewan at ewan@harrisellis.com or call 705-529-9433,

Pat Sturgeon in Port Credit Pat Sturgeon Yachts ,

and Don Finkle at RCR Yachts - Beneteau, Back Cove Yachts, Sabre Yachts, Used Boats, J Boats, Dealer for Sailboats and Power Boats, Parts, Services, Financing - you will have to import but RCR can arrange all that for you, probably at a better price than buying this side of the border

All 3 are long term, experienced, committed, reputable and customer driven.

A good broker should be able to pickup the phone, access other brokers and network shake the bushes to find you what you are looking for. Realtors call them pocket listings - they're not for sale, but could be.

As for the sunset clause, every written offer on everything should have an irrevocable deadline for response. 24 hours is realistic to get a response. Virtually everybody has email (or a dusty fax machine) so why allow more time. 48 or more leaves the door open for broker to get another buyer involved (yes, it seems to be a buyers market but competition happens when you least need it), potentially pushing the price up and locking out one of the buyers. Negotiating is like playing poker, those that play their cards close tend to be winners. Brokers like loyalty (we all do), so find one you are comfortable with, you feel you can trust, but don't lay all your cards on the table until the right time.

Good luck!
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