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  #21  
Old 01-06-2013
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Re: Paradigm changing boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobmcgov View Post
Herreshoff's early multihull Amaryllis (1876) should have moved heaven and earth -- and would have, had the reactionary fools of the yawt-ting set not reacted so violently to it.




Modern, much?!?! After the design's suppression, it really wasn't until Tabarly's Pen Duick IV that ocean-racing multis stormed back to the fore.



Guess what Tabarly was working on in 1976?



Could be the next paradigm shift.
Nice post. I agree

Regards

Paulo
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  #22  
Old 01-06-2013
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Re: Paradigm changing boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
A Vancouver built boat - Porpoise, a one off Discovery 47, was reputed to be the first Airex cored hull in the late 60's. Pic attached of it sailing locally.

DISCOVERY 47 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com
It was a discovery I did not know that boat that is very modern for a 1969 cruiser. Pity that the picture is a bit misleading. it looks a centerboarder but in fact it is a deep fin keel boat with 2.10m. A big draft for that time and an usually one today. Do you know if many were made? Probably not as it happens sometimes with boats that are way ahead of its time.



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Paulo
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  #23  
Old 01-06-2013
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Re: Paradigm changing boats

How about "America"?! Changed yacht racing forever.
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  #24  
Old 01-06-2013
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Re: Paradigm changing boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
Fiery Cross - the first canting keel boat

Olson 30 - the first ocean going mini-sled

Hobie 16
This certainly comes as a surprise:

In his book Sensible Cruising Designs, L. Francis Herreshoff promulgated the concept of a slim, canting-keel, 45-foot cruiser as the "ultimate sailing machine." In 1957, Kiwi designer Jim Young built the boat out of kauri wood; with Herreshoff's permission, he made some slight alterations to the design. "He added a foot of beam, fortunately, expanding it from six feet to seven feet," says Gary. "It made her somewhat habitable down below."

Though Fiery Cross was New Zealand's first canting-keel raceboat, after only a couple of years the boat was given a fixed keel to comply with the racing rules of the time.


New Zealand Classic | Cruising World

On "modern" times the concept was reinvented by Pascal Conq that was the one to use it successively in racing boats, I mean canting keels as we know them today. Him and his senior partner Finot (and some other French designers) were the ones that developed a reliable system as we know it today, working on Open60, that were much the testing boats were was made all the extensive testing to make them reliable.

Canting keels : A 30 years story ! | finot-conq architectes navals

Looking at Fierry Cross system I have some doubts regarding its reliability but then at the time they do not have the technology to do better than that.

I agree that the boat is not only a breakthrough in design as it is very modern even if it escapes completely the concept of a planning boat. I am quite sure the boat is still a very good boat upwind.

It certainly deserves its place on this thread. The boat:









some more interesting information on the words of the designer, Jim Young:

In L. Frances Herreshoff’s book Common Sense of Yacht Design, he advocated the system of canting the keel to windward to get the stability of a beamy boat, but in a narrow hull and without the drag of wide beam.

I thought that a great idea. It would add greatly to the sensation of sailing, great for cruising or reaching up to Kawau Island and up the northern coast. So I built her with that set-up in mind and you can see in the photograph of the hull being turned over of a hollow where the keel fin was recessed.




I knew that if you wanted speed then the boat would have to be long. And to keep costs down the hull would have to be narrow, plus having light gear with a light rig and everything else light and inexpensive. And the type of hull itself was the same as Herreschoff had advocated in his book, a double ended hull.

I had some correspondence with him because the boat he drew was the same length, 45 feet, but had only 6 foot (13.7 x 1.8 m) beam with 6.5 foot (2 m) draught. And I wanted to make this boat 7 foot (2.13 m) beam and so I wrote to him saying I was interested in his ideas but wanted to increase beam and asked him what he thought of that. He was full of enthusiasm and pleased to see someone carry out his ideas."


Regards

Paulo
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  #25  
Old 01-06-2013
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Re: Paradigm changing boats

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Originally Posted by outbound View Post
great idea PCP. Unfortunatey still have to work for a living Putting it away for the cruising kitty. Please take this thread where you think it should go. Very impressed that folks jumped on the engineering concept. On call - so sorry didn't respond sooner.
Hi, thanks for the confidence.

Unfortunately even if I had post some posts related to the way I think the thread should go, I mean regarding boats posted by other posters I do not have time to do it also.

In fact this has been fun and I mean also the interesting sailboat thread. I like to do it but it is a kind of addicted thing that takes my time away.

Very soon I will ended this type of participation since this is just a good excuse not to make other more disagreeable things I have to do, more important things.

This thread is a very interesting idea and It would be very interesting if someone had the time to explore the full potential of it. Not me.

Best regards

Paulo
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  #26  
Old 01-06-2013
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Re: Paradigm changing boats

From the overall look of that boat I get the idea that Bill Garden had it in the back of his mind when he designed Oceanus for himself. More beam and a conventional keel but very much the same look - long, narrow and light. The ends look the same, as do the deck structures.
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  #27  
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Re: Paradigm changing boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
It was a discovery I did not know that boat that is very modern for a 1969 cruiser. Pity that the picture is a bit misleading. it looks a centerboarder but in fact it is a deep fin keel boat with 2.10m. A big draft for that time and an usually one today. Do you know if many were made? Probably not as it happens sometimes with boats that are way ahead of its time.



Regards Paulo
AFAIK only that one had the deckhouse style. I know of at least one other that was a center cockpit (pic attached). It WAS a fast boat in its day - a race winner.

There was also a 42' version that had both deck styles.

Porpoise was the boat I referred to a while back that I looked into buying years ago. The owner was selling it because at 90 Y.O. it was becoming too much for him to singlehand.
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  #28  
Old 01-06-2013
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Re: Paradigm changing boats

To me, boats that initially came out with a different design than the norm, but eventually changed how sailers looked at things. I was reading an article in a local rag yesterday, showed a IIRC 65' Swan that won one of the first V70 style races, still cruises etc with 185K miles under its hull. Shape is very close etc to todays cruisers. Todays new V65 that will be used, will probably be the new shape of cruisers in 10-15 yrs.

One can see this in boats like the Bene first 30, Mumm/farr 30, to a degree the Elan 310/350, Jeanneau sunfast 3200, and bene figaroo also.

The J24 to me is one, as Johnsons did not design the boat to a rule, just to make a fast fun sailing boat. The Cal 40 could also be in this vain to a degree also.

Also, the race rules are allowing certain styles of boats that are more seaworthy to a degree too. A compared to the later IOR models with pinched sterns etc. In the end, it is all good. Easier to sail, comfortable, dry, fast etc.

Then if you look at boats from different area's of the world, you see designs that worked in those weather style environments. Proa's in the S pacific, dugout canoes here in the NW US and SW BC/Canada area, Kayaks in alaska, double enders in the Norway/finland area, wherry in New england........I'm sure I am missing some local designs, but hopefully the reader can add some.

Battle ships styles, how about the Greek ships with a WL longer than the deck so they could ram another boat and tip it over! Lots of interesting how things go


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  #29  
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Re: Paradigm changing boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by blt2ski View Post
I was reading an article in a local rag yesterday, showed a IIRC 65' Swan that won one of the first V70 style races, still cruises etc with 185K miles under its hull. Shape is very close etc to todays cruisers.

Marty
That boat was Sayula and the race was the original Whitbread RTW race. The boat got rolled 360 degrees at least once in the Southern Ocean, came up with rig intact and went on to win.

It was obviously well designed, well built and beautiful but it was a fairly conventional boat for its time. S&S were pretty conservative by then in the context of racing boats - they only had a couple of more years at the top before Peterson, Holland, Frers et.al. took the lead in IOR design.

It certainly wasn't a paradigm shifter.
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  #30  
Old 01-06-2013
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Re: Paradigm changing boats

Mac 26X/M. Any boat that could convert power boaters to sailing and vice versa is a paradigm shifting boat. You may not like the spork, but it has changed the sailing marketplace and the sailing world for a whole bunch of families.
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Last edited by bljones; 01-06-2013 at 05:47 PM.
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