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post #1 of 55 Old 01-04-2013 Thread Starter
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Paradigm changing boats

Just finished reading the full/fin keel debate and learned alot. Many noted you get the whole package and the keel is just part of it. Wonder which boats our esteemed panel think changed the game and why? e.g.
Valiant40/42- you can sail the world and expect to come home
Tayana 37- you can do it and not be a millionaire
Prout 39- you can do it on a multi hull
Deerfoot- 2 of you can do it on a big boat
Dana- you can do it on a small boat
J 24- the average guy can go fast
Cherubini- narrow and full keel doesn't mean slow
F27- go fast, fold it up and go home
Boreal 44- put all the weight in the middle then who needs a keel for a good ride
ETAP- who says only Boston Whalers are sink proof
Swan 46- it can be fast,beautiful and take what the sea hands out
etc.
All the best to you all

s/v Hippocampus
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post #2 of 55 Old 01-04-2013
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Re: Paradigm changing boats

I'd add the Pearson Triton(?).. pioneering the whole fiberglass recreational sailing era...

Nice list. And nice fleet too, Outbound 46 AND a PSC 34? that on purpose or is one of them for sale?

Ron

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post #3 of 55 Old 01-04-2013
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Re: Paradigm changing boats

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Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Just finished reading the full/fin keel debate and learned alot. Many noted you get the whole package and the keel is just part of it. Wonder which boats our esteemed panel think changed the game and why? e.g.


Not sure how esteemed I am but will give it a shot. My sense is that paradigms don't get shifted very often so there will not be a long list.

Valiant40/42- you can sail the world and expect to come home
Tayana 37- you can do it and not be a millionaire

Without the Westsail 32 these two may not have existed. The Westsail started the whole idea that you could head off to sea. You could even get as a kit,
.


Prout 39- you can do it on a multi hull

[COLOR="red"][
The first significant cruising cat should be on the list. I will take your for it that this is the one.
/COLOR]

Deerfoot- 2 of you can do it on a big boat
Not sure what paradigm got shifted here since really big cruising boats are rare. The move to bigger and bigger boats has been evolutionary rather than revolutionary. If this is the case the poster is likely the Amel since so many are out there and they keep getting bigger.

Dana- you can do it on a small boat

no paradigm was shifted here since the norm in the past was for smaller boats to be used. If you had to pick, maybe the Contessa 26, but it was of course based on the Folkboat. Maybe the best choice here would be John Guzzwell's Trekka

J 24- the average guy can go fast

lots of candidates but I would vote for the Hobie Cat or Laser

Cherubini- narrow and full keel doesn't mean slow
F27- go fast, fold it up and go home
Boreal 44- put all the weight in the middle then who needs a keel for a good ride
ETAP- who says only Boston Whalers are sink proof

All of these may be great boats but they did not change the fundamentals of sailing or cruising eg if sink proof was such a great idea why has it not caught on

Swan 46- it can be fast,beautiful and take what the sea hands out
etc.

again this boat did not change anything. Before and after it many boats aspired to be fast, beautiful, and tough. A fair number were successful.
All the best to you all
I think it is important not to confuse iconic vessels with game changers. Among the former would be boats like the Bermuda 40 and the Freedom 40. Among the latter would be Salty Tiger (hope I remember the name correctly), the fiest glass boat to win the Bermuda Race in 1969. After that plastic boats had to be taken seriously. Good topic to discuss.

Back home on Lake Ontario after something over 36,000 nm circumnavigator. Not surprisingly there is a lot of stuff I want to get done on Ainia both cosmetically and functionally. Getting an early start so it will be ready to go for next summer (Lake Superior?).
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post #4 of 55 Old 01-04-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Paradigm changing boats

you're definitley right. Wondering what's your list. ?
bougainvillea- glass has nothing on metal for elegance
BCC- maybe our forefather's knew something about the sea
Seguin 44- hull form can bring you to weather
Was thinking that being both representing different thinking and iconic changed the game but agree with you that your comments show deeper knowledge. Please share it.

Yup- you're right again the Crealock is for sale. Sweet little boat but not enough room for the bride's hair dryer and curlers. LOL
Tx.

s/v Hippocampus
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Last edited by outbound; 01-04-2013 at 11:00 AM.
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post #5 of 55 Old 01-04-2013
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Re: Paradigm changing boats

The American Sailboat Hall of Fame
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CR
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post #6 of 55 Old 01-04-2013
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Re: Paradigm changing boats

Cal 40 - brought surfing in sailboats to the world.

Ganbare 35 - Gets forgotten as "just an IOR boat" but it really changed the way hull/keel interaction was viewed
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I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #7 of 55 Old 01-04-2013
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Re: Paradigm changing boats

Valiant: "It will cost you an arm and a leg, but NEVER your life."

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post #8 of 55 Old 01-04-2013
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Re: Paradigm changing boats

Ok, I will play

I will say that even if I find today the Boreal a lot better than the OVNI the true paradigm of that boat is the OVNI. Maybe the 43, the one Cornell had.

Jimmy Cornell answers questions about OVNI yachts | Cornell Sailing Books

The Folkboat should be on that list no doubt and probably the Amel Maramu too.

Probably the Halberg-Rassy 312. Do you know that they had made 700 boats of that model?

The 1976 First 30 designed by Andre Mauric

Le First 30, André Mauric, le bienfaiteur du chantier Bénéteau. | All Boats Avenue

and probably tomorrow I will find out more but I guess that even counting only iconic boats, it is going to be a long one
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post #9 of 55 Old 01-04-2013
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Re: Paradigm changing boats

Piver Nimble.
Folkboat.

It's 5 o'clock somewhere:


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post #10 of 55 Old 01-05-2013
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Re: Paradigm changing boats

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Just finished reading the full/fin keel debate and learned alot. Many noted you get the whole package and the keel is just part of it. Wonder which boats our esteemed panel think changed the game and why? e.g.
Valiant40/42- you can sail the world and expect to come home
Tayana 37- you can do it and not be a millionaire
Prout 39- you can do it on a multi hull
Deerfoot- 2 of you can do it on a big boat
Dana- you can do it on a small boat
J 24- the average guy can go fast
Cherubini- narrow and full keel doesn't mean slow
F27- go fast, fold it up and go home
Boreal 44- put all the weight in the middle then who needs a keel for a good ride
ETAP- who says only Boston Whalers are sink proof
Swan 46- it can be fast,beautiful and take what the sea hands out
etc.
All the best to you all
I guess the game has always been changing. Prior to those, a big design change was Sparkmen and Stevens FINESTERRE. Compared to the fastest ocean racers in the day, it was fat(outrageous beam of 11'+), it's design priority was to be a comfortable cruising boat first, racer second(cruiser/racer). Even worse, it had a centerboard in a stub keel(the owner had shallow water sailing in mind). Some of these features helped it's handicap in the CCA era.

The captain(Mitchell) outsailed the fleet but much was blamed on the new design as it won the Marion Bermuda race, not once, but three seasons in a row.

Then Mitchell went off and cruised it for years. This is one of those designs that looks like it's moving even on jack stands. This is a sistership, FIDELIO, and still competes(via handicap) in classic races today. This is the design that started the run of boats like the Block Island 40, Bermuda 40, Bristol 40, and many others(including my boat, Alden challenger).
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