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  #41  
Old 01-23-2013
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Re: US Navy ship strikes reef because of incorrect charts

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Originally Posted by NCC320 View Post
Why such a post? You and none of the rest of us know what took place. Instead of some idiot watch officer, maybe it was some idiot enlisted helmsman who misunderstood the order, or maybe some idiot enlisted man who decided to check out and do maintenance on the emergency steering down below. Or more likely, there were no idiots, officer or enlisted. Just people, officer and enlisted, trying to do their jobs. Clearly something went wrong, and that will come out in the investigation.

Someone needs to grow a sense of humor, or perhaps stop tapping that ring on the desk so hard before you give yourself a headache. I take it you aren't a fan of Broadside comics?

Of course it could have been an idiot boatswains mate who spun the wheel the wrong way, just like you say.

Or an EM could have been doing PMs on the steering- at night time- without telling anybody, during sea and anchor detail in a restricted passage. Sure.

For all we know the hydraulic pump failed on the steering gear or the rudder trunion failed, or the generator tripped off the line and they lost steerage altogether. Who the hell knows?

Or just maybe... the charts were wrong. Just like they said.


My tongue in cheek post came from a funny episode that happened on the USS XXXXXXXXXX (redacted) sometime in the 90's somewhere in the Med during UNREP. Luckily, the watch officer realized the error in his orders to the helm when the helmsman responded "orders to the helm." A quick look at the big circle with all the white numbers on it made it clear to him that he was asking to come about. In fact, he even broke protocol and said, "Thank you" and smiled after the correct order was given and acknowledged. Yes, I know. Smiling on the bridge is indeed frowned upon, but we won't tell anyone.

Last edited by ShoalFinder; 01-23-2013 at 06:20 PM.
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  #42  
Old 01-23-2013
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Re: US Navy ship strikes reef because of incorrect charts

McHale's Navy, F Troop, Hogan's Heroes, Mash...we love to make fun of the Catch-22s in the service but we also know they do one hell of a job under the worst imaginable conditions, willingly putting their lives on the line to follow often questionable decisions of politicians.
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  #43  
Old 01-23-2013
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Re: US Navy ship strikes reef because of incorrect charts

For sure. Anyone who's been in the military will poke fun at the silly things that happen and the giant f*** ups that occur. Anyone who has been in any job for long enough will have stories about stupid things they've seen and done.

If you want to hear about EXTREMELY STUPID things that I have done, I have an endless list. I'll be the first to poke fun at myself. Lord knows I've done some really dumb stuff in my time.

Case in point, the ship that ran aground could have been a victim of a mistake I once made myself. I was on watch on the EPCC (Electrical Plant Control Console). I was paralleling generators and rather than dial down the oncoming generator until the synchroscope was just creeping, I was letting it haul ass. You know, because I was being Quick Draw McGraw because I thought I was s**t - hot.

Well, I managed to parallel the generators out of phase and therefore trip all of the generators off the line. We went cold, dark and quiet while running full steam. Alarms going nuts, battle lanterns on (the only lights on...) and the bridge calling down on the Bitch Box because they lost steering and the ship is at full speed with no control.

It took me a minute to get the ship powered back up again, but a lot can happen in a minute, especially if you are in a restricted maneuvering situation - which thank God we weren't.

I like to be funny. But I know full well that I've screwed up as royally as anyone I make fun of.
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Old 01-24-2013
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Re: US Navy ship strikes reef because of incorrect charts

Not knowing for sure, I post this as a query. It is my understanding that in a trip such as this mine sweeper undertook there are a number of preliminary steps. First the ships C/O is ordered to go from here to there by his superiors ashore. He in turn orders junior officers to make preparations - provisions, watch lists, etc. Included in these preparations is the navigating officer plotting out the course, making sure the appropriate charts are aboard, etc. The navigating officer then presents his proposed course to the captain, who signs off on it, and in turn presents it to the shore based authorities, who also must sign off on the course. Only after the shore based US Navy authorities have given their OK (clearance) which I understand has to be writing, can the lines be cast off, and the voyage begin.
If this is correct, the radio response of the C/O to the park ranger makes more sense. The C/O hears some minor Phillipino functionary telling him he is in a prohibited area. He has written clearance from his admiral, who is supposed to clear things between governments, to proceed the way he is going, and assumes it is a conflict between two governments, and so he tells the Phillipino government official he already has clearance to go where he is going, to check it out with the US Embassy. Not understanding it is a good guy trying to prevent trouble, assuming it is just another port authority with his hand out.
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Old 01-24-2013
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Re: US Navy ship strikes reef because of incorrect charts

Reports are that she now has a bunch of holes and they're going to try to get the fuel off. That's a tricky proposition unless they can get in on the reef side with some sort of air cushion or shallow draft rig. Then the plan is to get it up onto another boat. That's got to be some kind of trick.
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Old 01-24-2013
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Re: US Navy ship strikes reef because of incorrect charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by dongreerps View Post
Not knowing for sure, I post this as a query. It is my understanding that in a trip such as this mine sweeper undertook there are a number of preliminary steps. First the ships C/O is ordered to go from here to there by his superiors ashore. He in turn orders junior officers to make preparations - provisions, watch lists, etc. Included in these preparations is the navigating officer plotting out the course, making sure the appropriate charts are aboard, etc. The navigating officer then presents his proposed course to the captain, who signs off on it, and in turn presents it to the shore based authorities, who also must sign off on the course. Only after the shore based US Navy authorities have given their OK (clearance) which I understand has to be writing, can the lines be cast off, and the voyage begin.
If this is correct, the radio response of the C/O to the park ranger makes more sense. The C/O hears some minor Phillipino functionary telling him he is in a prohibited area. He has written clearance from his admiral, who is supposed to clear things between governments, to proceed the way he is going, and assumes it is a conflict between two governments, and so he tells the Phillipino government official he already has clearance to go where he is going, to check it out with the US Embassy. Not understanding it is a good guy trying to prevent trouble, assuming it is just another port authority with his hand out.
I'm hesitant to comment because my experience was a long time ago and procedures and techniques change over time. However, I believe that the exact course that the ship will take is (at least was) decided on board the ship. But if it was some politically sensitive situation, then shore based management/authorities might make the approval. Generally, the ship was instructed to move from one point to some other point within a certain departure date/time and arrival date/time timeframe, with perhaps general instructions of the movement area, but the ship's captain and navigator picked the exact course. And at times for various reasons, a ship could/would depart from that course.

Otherwise, the procedure you laid out was essentially correct (for my time) except for the exact course shore approval point (and might be correct here too now). The captain being "sure" of his position, would not be inclined to take movement instructions from a foreign national, even if he was some low level of authority.
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Old 01-25-2013
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Re: US Navy ship strikes reef because of incorrect charts

We may want to wait to find out what really happened. Even here in this thread we're seeing made up exchanges of "orders on the bridge". Who's to know if eager Phillippine(sic) newspaper reporters aren't doing the same at their end in order to inflame passions and sell more papers? It works for Rupert Murdock, why not others?


Or maybe Paul some of us actually travel to these parts and speak a bit of the dialects, cebuano for example. Perhaps just maybe there is a "bit" more to the story including the words arrogant, stupid, hubris and the local people are stupid and insignificant.

The US Navy has a large history of shiatting on people that they have ports with. Why just the other month or two I was reviewing documents concerning the continuing contamination of Subic Bay/Olongapo region. With the poisoning of the drinking water supply, fish, painting of vessels etc. I even got to review the "research" the navy did, the environmental impact study. Of course it was primarily conducted from behind a desk with little to no actual sampling being done. I will let you guess what their conclusion was, as I would not like to insult your intelligence, but it suffice to say I would easily take a natives word over the US Navy.
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  #48  
Old 01-25-2013
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Re: US Navy ship strikes reef because of incorrect charts

“It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt.” ― Mark Twain

...clearly needs to be applied liberally in this thread.
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  #49  
Old 01-25-2013
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Re: US Navy ship strikes reef because of incorrect charts

Some good news - they've managed to get all the fuel off the GUARDIAN before a major spill occurred...

this is gonna be one hell of a salvage operation. She will have to be LIFTED on to another barge or ship, having been holed in several places, and is now too badly damaged to be taken in tow... Or, maybe dragged off, and into a floating drydock before she sinks, perhaps?

Grounded
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Old 01-25-2013
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Re: US Navy ship strikes reef because of incorrect charts

Fact check: The USN turned over Subic Bay to the Philippine Navy in 1992. The USN hasn't been there (other than port calls) in twenty years. Any pollution is locally generated.
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