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  #51  
Old 01-25-2013
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Re: US Navy ship strikes reef because of incorrect charts

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Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
McHale's Navy, F Troop, Hogan's Heroes, Mash...we love to make fun of the Catch-22s in the service but we also know they do one hell of a job under the worst imaginable conditions, willingly putting their lives on the line to follow often questionable decisions of politicians.
SNAFU, SUSFU and FUBAR were all created by the military but the incredible capabilities of the U.S. military are undeniable.
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  #52  
Old 01-25-2013
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Re: US Navy ship strikes reef because of incorrect charts

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Originally Posted by GeorgeB View Post
Fact check: The USN turned over Subic Bay to the Philippine Navy in 1992. The USN hasn't been there (other than port calls) in twenty years. Any pollution is locally generated.
I think any Naval base that operated for 100 years, mostly before "environment" was a word in widespread use, would be able to pollute prodigiously for longer than 20 years after closing.
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  #53  
Old 01-25-2013
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Re: US Navy ship strikes reef because of incorrect charts

if you think Subic is bad.. next time you are in hawaii.. go to the uSS Arizona memorial. That harbor is foul. For a tropical paradise, the water is so murky taht divers sent down to check out the arizona's rate of decomposition could barely see the ship
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  #54  
Old 01-25-2013
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Re: US Navy ship strikes reef because of incorrect charts

A couple more little “fun” facts: Subic backed up against Olongapo City – 250,000 inhabitants and inadequate sewage treatment. Is it possible they have something to do with the water quality? How about all the Philipino shipyards that ring the bay? Mount Pinatubo dumping a foot of ash in the Bay had a lot more impact on the fisheries than the USN ever did. For most of its existence, Subic was pretty minor repair facility for the USN. It’s big build up happened during the Viet Nam days. As you guys obviously haven’t seen the base, here is a picture during its heyday in the late 70’s and a shot of it today.





Pearl’s problem is it was mostly a man-made harbor carved out of the mangrove delta of the Pearl River. The East Loch was dredged in part, to create a flushing action in order to maintain water quality and harbor depth. Alas, now that the Navy has reduced their footprint, they are allowing the Loch to silt back in and return to mangroves affecting water quality. I read somewhere that the biggest source of pollution at Pearl is the Arizona herself. But as a gravesite, there are no plans to disturb her by pumping her oil tanks.
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Old 01-25-2013
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Re: US Navy ship strikes reef because of incorrect charts

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As a Navy Brat who comes from a LONG line of Navy men ..
Didn't someone tell you that the Navy doesn't have "brats"....the Army has "brats". The Navy has "juniors": I know, cuz I was one!
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  #56  
Old 01-26-2013
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Re: US Navy ship strikes reef because of incorrect charts

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Originally Posted by billyruffn View Post
Didn't someone tell you that the Navy doesn't have "brats"....the Army has "brats". The Navy has "juniors": I know, cuz I was one!
I remember the Navy's quixotic attempt to ban the word "Brats". I also remember Commander Dad lining us up and explaining that the Navy was wrong, we were in fact "Brats", and he would continue to address us as such.
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  #57  
Old 01-27-2013
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Re: US Navy ship strikes reef because of incorrect charts

Here is an update from the local press here regarding the latest:

US Navy must pay for breaking PH laws–Aquino
‘Apology for Tubbataha not enough’
12:03 am | Sunday, January 27th, 2013

President Benigno S. Aquino III. Malacañang Photo Bureau

DAVOS, Switzerland—“Excuse me, we sustained damage. Do we leave it at that?” President Aquino said on Friday.

The United States Navy will be held answerable under Philippine laws for the damage caused by the grounding of a US 7th Fleet warship in Tubbataha Reefs, Mr. Aquino said.

Talking with Filipino reporters after the World Economic Forum meeting here, Mr. Aquino said he had ordered Transportation Secretary Joseph Emilio Abaya to investigate the grounding of the minesweeper USS Guardian in the Unesco-World Heritage protected area in the Sulu Sea on Jan. 17.

The Philippine government’s priority, however, is to remove the ship from the reef to prevent further damage to the marine environment.

“How did they actually get into a protected area? How did their navigation systems, [supposedly among the most sophisticated in the world], fail?” Mr. Aquino said.

Asked whether the apology issued by the US government would suffice, the President said it only showed that the United States respected the Philippines as a sovereign state and was “very careful” about its sensitivities.

“But that doesn’t exempt them from having to comply with our laws,” Mr. Aquino said.

The Avenger-class USS Guardian, a 63-meter, 1,300-ton mine countermeasure vessel belonging to the US 7th Fleet, ran aground on the south atoll of the Tubbataha Reefs while sailing to Indonesia after making a port call at Puerto Princesa in Palawan.



US apology



US officials have apologized for the accident and the damage it has caused to the Tubbataha Reefs, which the Philippines considers a national treasure.

But for President Aquino expressions of regret, while appreciated, are nearly not enough, as the US Navy has caused such a big mess and the violation of Philippine laws cannot be ignored, even for the sake of friendship.

“Our laws are very specific,” Mr. Aquino said. “When they got the diplomatic clearance to pass through our waters, this is a recognized, internationally recognized zone, that is, like an exclusive zone. They violated it. There are penalties.”

But the process will come in stages. The top priority, Mr. Aquino said, is to remove the stuck ship and then to assess the damage.

At the same time, the President said he would like to know how the accident happened so that measures could be taken to prevent repetitions.

“But the other thing is the damage, the fines that will be levied,” Mr. Aquino said.

Why are you there?

Philippine environmentalists and lawmakers have demanded to know why the warship proceeded to enter the marine park, 128 kilometers from Puerto Princesa, despite warnings from park authorities that it was entering a restricted area.

The US Navy said a navigational map that misplaced the Tubbataha Reefs or possible errors in the Guardian’s navigational system caused the ship to stray into the protected area, famous for its magnificent marine life and coral that rival Australia’s Great Barrier Reef.

Strong winds and big waves have been tossing the vessel around for days, damaging 1,000 square meters of reef, according to the Philippine Navy and environmental officials.



Salvage operation

Philippine and American authorities have decided to remove the Guardian by lifting the badly damaged ship off the water and loading it onto a barge.

Two heavy lift ship-borne cranes are arriving from Singapore at the end of the month to remove the vessel and take it to a shipyard somewhere in the region for repairs.

The US Navy has finished defueling the Guardian, with a Malaysian tugboat, the Vos Apollo, removing 57,000 liters of diesel fuel from the ship on Friday.

The salvage operation is expected to start, at the earliest, Feb. 1.



Damages



Transportation Secretary Abaya, a graduate of the US Naval Academy at Annapolis, Maryland, said earlier that the Philippine government would lodge a complaint for damages.

Angelique Songco, the marine park superintendent, said the damage to the reef could not be assessed until the ship was removed. But the Philippine government, she said, imposes a fine of $300 for every square meter of damaged coral.

In 2005 the environmental group Greenpeace was fined nearly $7,000 after its ship struck coral in Tubbataha.

While apologizing for the mess caused by the Guardian, the US government has said nothing about paying for the damage to the reef.

As usual, after the eruption of a controversy involving Americans, left-leaning groups are calling for a review of the Philippines’ Visiting Forces Agreement (VFA) with the United States.

Asked about it, Mr. Aquino replied, “What does the VFA have to do with the Americans’ going to Tubbataha? There are no [joint military exercises there]. [T]his is really a question of violating certain ecological laws that we already have in the books.” With a report from Tarra Quismundo



First posted 3:46 pm | Saturday, January 26th, 2013
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  #58  
Old 01-27-2013
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Re: US Navy ship strikes reef because of incorrect charts

So they want money.

You'll never see anyone limp so much as the driver of a 20 yr old beater after being hit by a brand new Mercedes.
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  #59  
Old 01-27-2013
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Re: US Navy ship strikes reef because of incorrect charts

If the USN ship was using digital charts. There is no simple way to correct them....
I have digital chart on my boat and I have Identified quite a few errors... It seems that the people who produce them, either don't know what they are doing or just too lazy to correct any known errors. The key word in that last bit is "known."
And for those of you who uses 'Maps' instead of 'Charts', Good luck to you. Seeing that Maps are for land use and not waterways
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  #60  
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Re: US Navy ship strikes reef because of incorrect charts

Interestingly enough if a foreign military vessel struck say....the reefs off Florida or in Hawaii your panties would be all in a bunch but...The response by the DNR, Park service, Coast Guard, PETA, WWF, general populace, etc. would be overwhelming.

When it comes to taking responsibility for ones actions...and it is not in YOUR backyard well definitely then it is not a problem.......

So they want money.

You'll never see anyone limp so much as the driver of a 20 yr old beater after being hit by a brand new Mercedes.

They also want people with at least half a brain to pilot ships.
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