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  #61  
Old 01-27-2013
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Re: US Navy ship strikes reef because of incorrect charts

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Originally Posted by Boasun View Post
If the USN ship was using digital charts. There is no simple way to correct them....
I have digital chart on my boat and I have Identified quite a few errors... It seems that the people who produce them, either don't know what they are doing or just too lazy to correct any known errors. The key word in that last bit is "known."
I don't know, I'd tend to believe that the folks at The National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA) probably have a pretty fair idea of what they're doing, and doubt such an error would have been due to "laziness"...

Sounds like the error might possibly have occurred during the digitizing of the known charts in the Sulu Sea... I'd love to know how accurately existing paper charts place the reef, but I'd put my money on the likelihood that they're not 8 miles off... (grin)

Quote:

While a review of the digital navigation charts (DNC) used by a U.S. Navy minesweeper that grounded last week in the Philippines found one additional error, the charts were declared safe Wednesday by the Navy’s top navigator.

“Ships should continue to confidently navigate with DNC, using all standard safe seamanship and navigation practices,” Rear Adm. John White, navigator of the Navy, said in messages sent Jan. 23 to Navy ships, commands and flag officers.

The National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA), creator of the charts, conducted “a comprehensive analysis of all DNC libraries,” White said in the message, and confirmed the error in the location of the Tubattaha Reef in the western Philippines, which the minesweeper Guardian struck in the early hours of Jan. 17.

The NGA reported earlier the location of the reef on the DNC charts was about eight nautical miles away from its true location.

“Additional significant errors” — up to four nautical miles — were found along the southwest coast of Chile, White reported in his messages. Those errors, he wrote, “are reflected on DNC and paper charts. NGA has issued warnings on those errors to all mariners.”

The two inaccuracies “are the only known significant errors in the entire DNC portfolio of over 3,700 libraries,” White wrote.

“No chart is infallible, but NGA’s DNC remains the most accurate chart portfolio available.”

The errors that were found came from the LANDSAT satellite survey images used to “geo-rectify” the digital charts, White wrote.


“Navy will be a key participant in a follow-on review of NGA’s procedures to ensure the products and services associated with nautical charting continue to be safe and accurate,” White said in the messages.

“I share NGA’s high confidence that these errors are isolated, and that DNCs are overall safe for navigation.”

U.S. Navy: Charts Used By Grounded Minesweeper Are Safe | Defense News | defensenews.com
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  #62  
Old 01-27-2013
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Re: US Navy ship strikes reef because of incorrect charts

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Originally Posted by AKscooter View Post
.......They also want people with at least half a brain to pilot ships.
If left to choose between foreign ships with better than half witted pilots and money, want to bet they will take the money.
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  #63  
Old 01-31-2013
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Re: US Navy ship strikes reef because of incorrect charts

well.. the guardian is done. Just read this morning they are planning on stipping the hull and then cutting her up to get the ship off of the reef.
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  #64  
Old 02-01-2013
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Re: US Navy ship strikes reef because of incorrect charts

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Originally Posted by mad_machine View Post
well.. the guardian is done. Just read this morning they are planning on stipping the hull and then cutting her up to get the ship off of the reef.
Well, if it's an environmental disaster (*) they're wanting I can't think of a better way to do it.

Funny.. I thought this reef was supposed to be a highly-protected, tourist mecca etc. Maybe the US Navy at it's most clever??



* = If you don't know what happens when you cut up a ship on a reef, google "rena disaster" to find out.
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  #65  
Old 02-01-2013
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Re: US Navy ship strikes reef because of incorrect charts

The fuel is already off.. so I doubt she will be dumping thousands of gallons of oil onto the reef
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Last edited by mad_machine; 02-01-2013 at 10:00 AM.
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Old 02-03-2013
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Re: US Navy ship strikes reef because of incorrect charts

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Originally Posted by mad_machine View Post
The fuel is already off.. so I doubt she will be dumping thousands of gallons of oil onto the reef
Maybe not thousands of gallons... but I wasn't referring to the fuel.

It's the rest of the crap that gets washed away whilst cutting up a ship on a reef that causes the environmental damage: paint flakes (probably the worst contaminant to the ecosystem of a reef), bits of plastic and general rubbish that simply cannot be contained no matter how much money you throw at it. ..not to mention the wanton destruction of a wide area around the wreck caused by the salvage barges, prop wash from tugs and simply big pieces of the ship moving on the coral.

I feel for any locals who rely on the tourist diving for their income.. because if that's what your Navy has planned, it sounds like that reef, in particular, is stuffed already.
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Old 02-12-2013
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Re: US Navy ship strikes reef because of incorrect charts

Going to be a long process!
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Old 02-13-2013
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Re: US Navy ship strikes reef because of incorrect charts

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Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
It's the rest of the crap that gets washed away whilst cutting up a ship on a reef that causes the environmental damage: paint flakes (probably the worst contaminant to the ecosystem of a reef), bits of plastic and general rubbish that simply cannot be contained no matter how much money you throw at it. ..not to mention the wanton destruction of a wide area around the wreck caused by the salvage barges, prop wash from tugs and simply big pieces of the ship moving on the coral.

I feel for any locals who rely on the tourist diving for their income.. because if that's what your Navy has planned, it sounds like that reef, in particular, is stuffed already.
As a case in point, it seems the salvors for the Costa Concordia stuff-up are currently fixing the wreck in position, planning to re-float it and then tow it away to be cut up - to avoid precisely what I describe above. ...and they're saying it'll be the largest effort of it's type ever.

If a bunch of civilians have the wherewithall to do that with one of the world's largest passenger liners, surely the Mighty US Navy can do something similiar with this tiny ship?

..or maybe they just don't give a stuff?
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Old 02-13-2013
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Re: US Navy ship strikes reef because of incorrect charts

It's a crap situation and the Navy is to blame. But at this point what would you have them do?

The Navy will have to pay someone. They Navy is not in the ecological salvage industry. The Navy does salvage, but not on the order of what's being proposed. It's not that the Navy doesn't care- the reality is "what are their options?" There is no magic wand to make it all go away.

In the Navy of my day, they'd have had several tugs pull the wreck to deep water and deep six it so it could become part of the reef itself, just like the other wrecks that lie in deep water not so very far from this wreck.

Last edited by ShoalFinder; 02-13-2013 at 07:21 PM.
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Old 02-13-2013
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Re: US Navy ship strikes reef because of incorrect charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
As a case in point, it seems the salvors for the Costa Concordia stuff-up are currently fixing the wreck in position, planning to re-float it and then tow it away to be cut up - to avoid precisely what I describe above. ...and they're saying it'll be the largest effort of it's type ever.

If a bunch of civilians have the wherewithall to do that with one of the world's largest passenger liners, surely the Mighty US Navy can do something similiar with this tiny ship?

..or maybe they just don't give a stuff?
well.. I imagine they would have to cut away part of the reef to get in there to patch the Guardian up enough to refloat her. At this point it may be best to strip her where she sits, clean her out as best then can.. weigh her down, and yank.. and once clear, she drops to the bottom to become part of the reef she damaged
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