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  #11  
Old 01-23-2013
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Re: Many cruisers with documented vessels can not enter FL legally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltaten View Post
I'm registered in MD. Does that mean that FL is reciprocal w/MD ?
I think you are covered. Do yourself a favor though and just don't go there
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  #12  
Old 01-23-2013
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Re: Many cruisers with documented vessels can not enter FL legally.

Some more facts would be helpful.

1. What are they being ticketed for?
2. How much were they ticketed?
3. What needed to be done to avoid this ticket?
4. How much does this remediation cost?

As stated, there is an expectation of a right to freedom of travel in the United States of America. How we can tax collect for intrastate travel on a boat and not a car is confusing.
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  #13  
Old 01-23-2013
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Re: Many cruisers with documented vessels can not enter FL legally.

"how about cars on florida highways ?"
billc, you're dead right. Florida, like every other state, will insist that your car has registration and title on it before it comes in. And then if you stay too long, you'll have to change the title and registraiton to Florida--as every other state requires.
The onerous Florida provision for boats is in fact simply the result of Florida motor vehicle laws, Florida does not single out boats for this treatment. They're just too dumb to exempt boats from the ordinary "motor vehicle" rules.
On the other hand, if the boat is +30 years old and has the original type of engine, it gets special treatment and a radical discount. And if it has no engine--then it isn't a motor vehicle and it doesn't need numbers.
And, Florida may be the only state that allows boaters-who-stay-too-long to buy a secondary Florida registration, instead of changing their registration to Fl and then back again to their home state when they leave. They still hit your pocket, but for less than any other state since you don't have to convert back and forth. Go figure.

meme, they also don't charge immigrants a "catchup" tax. They charge everyone, including the natives, about $500 per car to title it the first time around. That is offset somewhat by the grear redneck tradition of not having any annual safety inspection, most states require at costs of $10-40 or more. WTF, who needs to know if the car has working lights or brakes, that's just distracted driving.

Florida is also the only state with no state defense force or state militia. It is the only Eastern state that comes from the Spanish traditions. It is a latecomer to the Federal Republic. And unlike Tejas and California, it was never a Republic before joining the US. So yes, Florida is an odd place. No one says you gotta go there.

Last edited by hellosailor; 01-23-2013 at 03:31 PM.
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Old 01-23-2013
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Re: Many cruisers with documented vessels can not enter FL legally.

hellosailor "Florida is also the only state with no state defense force or state militia."

What about the Florida National Guard?
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Old 01-23-2013
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Re: Many cruisers with documented vessels can not enter FL legally.

Florida has a NG program, but in every other state there is a domestic state force which is seconded into the NG. The NG program usually provides federal training, finding, and equipment to the state militias in exchange for the ability to have them seconded to federal service on request, and usually there is a "home guard" and/or "state guard" component who are also exempted from NG service, so they can remain home to defend their state. When a state's NG forces are federalized, they become active federal militia who are seconded to the regular military, an odd little dance of legalities which is codified under a series of laws that even recently aren't all available on the web, you have to go searching in repository/law libraries to dig them up.

Not in Florida. In Florida the NG has a special program under federal authority and order. In every other state, there is a military or paramilitary force under state control, which can be called up as a state force, or federalized under the NG program. If you are a citizen of any other state (usually a male citizen between ~18~45) you are in fact obligated to serve when called. In Florida? Nope, Spain didn't have any legacy of militia service. That came from the English kings.

Technically, there's both a "National Guard of the US" and a "NG" or some such intentionally confusing nomenclature to go along with that all. Part of the two-step to ensure that NG troops think they are regular Army under Army command with no split loyalties. I keep getting the bits confused--which is exactly what Uncle Sam wants. The later Mr. Lincoln made sure that "militia" would be a dirty word forever after they won the Civil War.
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Old 01-23-2013
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Re: Many cruisers with documented vessels can not enter FL legally.

So... Just how far do I hafta stay offshore to be NOT in FL waters? Tney usual 3 miles or do they claim 12-200??
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Old 01-23-2013
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Re: Many cruisers with documented vessels can not enter FL legally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltaten View Post
you said;
"Unless you are from a state like Maryland, you have to register your documented vessel in advance before entering Florida to not be at risk of being fined. Federal Documentation is good enough for foreign countries but not for Florida."

I'm registered in MD. Does that mean that FL is reciprocal w/MD ? Or did you mean only for Fedreally Documented boats?"?

I'm a noob and confused
State Registered in Md means you don't have to worry in Fl. I'm documented and Md.

You are okay on both the registration, and the tax. I do think they might make you change registration to Fl if you are there for more than 90 days, but then you would not have to pay the tax, you already have.
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Old 01-23-2013
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Re: Many cruisers with documented vessels can not enter FL legally.

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Originally Posted by deltaten View Post
So... Just how far do I hafta stay offshore to be NOT in FL waters? Tney usual 3 miles or do they claim 12-200??
You're not going to want to buck the Gulf Stream 3 knot current. Better to register the boat somewhere.
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  #19  
Old 01-23-2013
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Re: Many cruisers with documented vessels can not enter FL legally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Florida has a NG program, but in every other state there is a domestic state force which is seconded into the NG. The NG program usually provides federal training, finding, and equipment to the state militias in exchange for the ability to have them seconded to federal service on request, and usually there is a "home guard" and/or "state guard" component who are also exempted from NG service, so they can remain home to defend their state. When a state's NG forces are federalized, they become active federal militia who are seconded to the regular military, an odd little dance of legalities which is codified under a series of laws that even recently aren't all available on the web, you have to go searching in repository/law libraries to dig them up.

Not in Florida. In Florida the NG has a special program under federal authority and order. In every other state, there is a military or paramilitary force under state control, which can be called up as a state force, or federalized under the NG program. If you are a citizen of any other state (usually a male citizen between ~18~45) you are in fact obligated to serve when called. In Florida? Nope, Spain didn't have any legacy of militia service. That came from the English kings.

Technically, there's both a "National Guard of the US" and a "NG" or some such intentionally confusing nomenclature to go along with that all. Part of the two-step to ensure that NG troops think they are regular Army under Army command with no split loyalties. I keep getting the bits confused--which is exactly what Uncle Sam wants. The later Mr. Lincoln made sure that "militia" would be a dirty word forever after they won the Civil War.
It can be confusing, mostly because the term "National Guard" refers to the state military, not the "national" one.

Each states "National Guard" is under the authority of that states government, while the US Army (and navy, af...) and their respective Reserve components are under the federal government.

The states "National Guard" are trained at federal military installations just like regular US army (navy, etc) folks, and the units can be called up by the federal government if needed.

The Florida National Guard is just like any other state's National Guard, it is the military force that reports to the state government. nothing different.

You may be thinking of the "State Defense Force" which some states maintain in the event the National Guard is federalized, so that someone is around to do the job that the National Guard did. Florida is not unique in not bothering to maintain a standing State Defense Force, as most states dont bother. These forces are not "seconded into the NG" and cannot be federalized, and are not a replacement for military service in the event of a federal draft.

A good description of how this works can be found here:

The mudane, not unique status of the Florida National Guard is described here:

And for the big picture:

Sorry to have grabed onto a tangental conversation thread here.

Last edited by groggy; 01-24-2013 at 03:14 AM.
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  #20  
Old 01-23-2013
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Re: Many cruisers with documented vessels can not enter FL legally.

Do you mean to say that all those large foreign-flagged mega-yachts based in SE FL that are owned and used by the property owners there will have to get FL state registration numbers?
.... and will they also have to run the 'traditional' potty-thug gauntlet in places like Volusia County, etc.?
.... or wont they have to tow 'divers flags' from their persons when sitting or swimming in the surf?

.... will these state licensed + foreign flagged vessels now be able to use an anchor?

... or maybe instead of visiting or passing through Florida, the state will simply allow you a modest 'differential' discount if you just 'send them the money' that you 'would have' spent there?


Wait for perfect weather window at Cumberland Island, GA, run close along to the FL coast until Ft. Pierce or Lake Worth, then make hard turn to port ... to avoid the total F'ing confiscatory and predatory NONSENSE that's been increasingly happening for the past few years in FLORIDA.
The Bahamas have a steep entry free ... but its upfront; nowadays in Florida it seems every other day there is just one more 'money trap' set up to to 'sucker' a convenient prey species. .... potty police and hardly a 'operating' pump-out, sojourners fees, licensure windfalls for the state, anchoring exclusions, over-crowded mooring fields ... but do not think of anchoring if the mooring field is full, No wake zones ... so the FL boats and 'water cops' have better targets? Having your 'papers checked' right in middle of bascule bridge opening ... and on and on and on.

Do yourself a favor, stay out of Florida ... 'they' do not want you there.
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