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post #31 of 39 Old 02-03-2013
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Re: Sailors rescued 900 miles off shore..

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I want to explore and learn what made this event.
It's quite simple - bad judgement.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #32 of 39 Old 02-03-2013
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Re: Sailors rescued 900 miles off shore..

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Lin Pardey, Larry Pardey, Storm Tactics Modern Methods . Adlard Coles' Heavy weather sailing, I have to think people write the book must go out into some weather. I have yet to read the two books I am in a different book right now. I spend a lot of time here on sailnet. I call myself new to sailing. I am looking at this voyage 900 miles out and trying to see all of the events that made this outcome. Easy to see WNA is the big one. I am pleased with how well the post have been to point out water lines and such. Now I know what WNA stands for. The best Choice Made at 900 miles was to ask for help. Winds for the next day by way of whats been posted look to be beyond the crew and boats ability. They came to be in an bad situation unnesessary. Planes fly into the eyes of storms, HMS Bountys sink. Men climb Everest. Good well equipped sailboats are Quote " capable of dealing with (almost) anything the ocean can dish out" end Quote, Lin & Larry Pardey. I want to explore and learn what made this event. We may be at the end the thread now? The HMS Bounty is for me not that interesting. I will not be on a ship like her. If I keep at it I could find myself on a 40 foot or less and under sail Good day, Lou
After reading the above HWS books (and several others) - and after following several stories about rescues, and even writing about a few, the common denominator seems to be the sailor(s).

The sailor that has absolutely no intention of leaving that boat usually figures out a way to make it through. The boats fail far less often than the sailor.


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post #33 of 39 Old 02-03-2013
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Re: Sailors rescued 900 miles off shore..

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After reading the above HWS books (and several others) - and after following several stories about rescues, and even writing about a few, the common denominator seems to be the sailor(s).

The sailor that has absolutely no intention of leaving that boat usually figures out a way to make it through. The boats fail far less often than the sailor.
That was clearly demonstrated in the Fastnet disaster - a number of abandoned boats were later found afloat - even some where sailors had died during the abandonment.

That word usually in your post is significant though - the penalty for failure is.....

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #34 of 39 Old 02-03-2013
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Re: Sailors rescued 900 miles off shore..

well.. regarding the fastnet gale... if they had stayed with the boats.. how beaten up or even dead, would the sailors had been if they had been below decks during that aweful event?

I am not saying you are wrong.. you're not.. but I can think that pitchpoling below decks is a good way to break a lot of bones

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post #35 of 39 Old 02-03-2013
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Re: Sailors rescued 900 miles off shore..

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well.. regarding the fastnet gale... if they had stayed with the boats.. how beaten up or even dead, would the sailors had been if they had been below decks during that aweful event?

I am not saying you are wrong.. you're not.. but I can think that pitchpoling below decks is a good way to break a lot of bones
Fershur but if it's that bad, being in a liferaft would be like a few cycles in a clothes dryer.

No matter what, it's a situation best avoided.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #36 of 39 Old 02-03-2013
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Re: Sailors rescued 900 miles off shore..

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well.. regarding the fastnet gale... if they had stayed with the boats.. how beaten up or even dead, would the sailors had been if they had been below decks during that aweful event?

I am not saying you are wrong.. you're not.. but I can think that pitchpoling below decks is a good way to break a lot of bones
This is the sticking point I keep coming back to as well.

The boat will be fine after it's rolled, tossed, and shaken. But how will you do inside this tumbling barrel when all the batteries break loose, soon after joined by the dining table that breaks loose, the toolbox that goes adrift, the plates and pots and pans, the spare parts, your scuba tank... and all of that big, heavy, sharp stuff goes flying past your head over and over again, or falls on top of you every time the floor becomes the ceiling and left becomes right and vice versa.

The liferaft is hell of lot softer. Given the alternative of riding inside the Body Pulverizer....

Most definitely the boat will probably survive, and statistics likely point to a better chance of survival when you stay on the vessel. But it's a harrowing thought.

Certainly makes the case for SECURED FOR SEA.
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post #37 of 39 Old 02-04-2013
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Re: Sailors rescued 900 miles off shore..

Have another recent one. Only at 60Nm from land he was rescued because he felt strong pains in the chest. He was 67 year's older.



I confess that guys with around 70 or more and small children (with less than 3 years) on a sailboat on long Ocean passages give me some concern. It is known that both groups need frequent medical care that obviously is not available in the middle of the Ocean.

Some worry a lot about boat seaworthiness but this seems to me a far bigger risk not only to them but to the ones that risk their lives to assist them, not to mention costs that are not paid by them but by all.

...
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post #38 of 39 Old 02-04-2013
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Re: Sailors rescued 900 miles off shore..

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After reading the above HWS books (and several others) - and after following several stories about rescues, and even writing about a few, the common denominator seems to be the sailor(s).

The sailor that has absolutely no intention of leaving that boat usually figures out a way to make it through. The boats fail far less often than the sailor.
It's a pity we're never likely to learn much more about this one, the language barrier will probably prevent much discussion or information about this particular voyage from being widely disseminated...

This one is really interesting, to me - I'd love to know what the hell they were thinking, doing that route this time of the year? Was it a delivery, for instance, by experienced sailors who fully understood the risks? Or, the opposite extreme, clueless sailors who dismissed or underestimated them? Perhaps not quite as unfathomable as the BOUNTY, but pretty damn close...

I'm inclined to guess the former, something along the lines of a delivery is more likely to explain the apparent destination of the East coast of the US in winter... Seems if they were simply cruisers/recreational sailors, they'd be doing the tradewind route from the Canaries to the Caribbean, along with 99.9 % of those crossing the Atlantic westbound after hurricane season...

I recall a similar case about 3-4 years ago, a multihull being delivered by a French crew, if memory serves, originally bound for the Miami Boat Show... Halfway thru the trip, the destination was changed to Annapolis, and they altered course further north... Ran into a big blow a few hundred miles E of Bermuda, capsized, and were extremely lucky to be rescued in some very serious weather...

I'm sure Paulo will be keeping a close eye on the Euro sites for us, perhaps more details will be forthcoming after the crew returns home...
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post #39 of 39 Old 02-04-2013
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Re: Sailors rescued 900 miles off shore..

Sometimes you just got to:
Quote:
Spread your arms and hold you breath
Always trust your cape
Guy Clark
I've seen "experienced sailors" crumble in nasty weather, but I've not seen a Cabo Rico crumble.
I'll admit to being a sissy, at 30-35 kts. I'll turn downwind and run squealing like a little girl who's seen the boogey man for any shelter if available. But I don't know how you can instill people with the confidance that the boat won't sink and the storm will end. Sometimes you just got to lay back, hang on, and wait it out.
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