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  #41  
Old 02-02-2013
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Re: Life Span of a Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Yes, except that is not happening with all the cars, I mean being valuable and worth of restoring but just to a few precious few, the ones that have an iconic value. I guess the same will happen to the boats, I mean, not to all boats but just to a few iconic ones.

Regards

Paulo
The cars without the iconic names but much older are showing up at Pebble Beach, Montery, Concours De Elegance car shows are costing hundreds to thousands more than the face value of the car when they were first sold... some of these cars are going for millions and yet they were sold for $500 or less when new...

Many old boats/airplanes to a degree follow the same route albeit maybe not commanding the millions cars are doing in shows/auctions... boats seem to be in a different category that is hard to define in terms of 'value'... The value seems to be what the new owner sees in the benefits of new boat ownership rather than the value of investment for a future sale after restoring it or bringing it up to bristol state... a degree of satisfaction/pleasure???
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  #42  
Old 02-02-2013
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Re: Life Span of a Boat

IMHP the Cal 29 is nothing at all like a Lazer 28

It is far more like a Catalina 28 in weight and interior accommodations or a comparable Hunter as they all have almost exactly the same weight of about 8000# and 24' LWL and it why they BOTh sell a LOT of sailboats

We are talking about small boats with standing headroom for a 6'1" person like myself and silly things like and enclosed head area and fairly nice woodwork





You have no IDEA how much at ease the fact a boat has and enclosed head puts people your introducing to sailing and its NOT and easy thing to find anymore on small boats



I can take a child out who has never BEEN on a sailboat and have them at ease and LOVING the experience on a large stable easy to sail platform which is what the 29 is all about
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  #43  
Old 02-02-2013
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Re: Life Span of a Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarguy56 View Post
The cars without the iconic names but much older are showing up at Pebble Beach, Montery, Concours De Elegance car shows are costing hundreds to thousands more than the face value of the car when they were first sold... some of these cars are going for millions and yet they were sold for $500 or less when new...

Many old boats/airplanes to a degree follow the same route albeit maybe not commanding the millions cars are doing in shows/auctions... boats seem to be in a different category that is hard to define in terms of 'value'... The value seems to be what the new owner sees in the benefits of new boat ownership rather than the value of investment for a future sale after restoring it or bringing it up to bristol state... a degree of satisfaction/pleasure???
But the cars that you see there selling for a fortune are not Chevies from the 70's but high-end cars or really old cars that are very rare . I had a look:



In fact we are saying the same thing: The value of a boat ( if we don't consider the subjective value that a owner attributes to it) like the one of a car, is the value at what it can be sold on the market.

Some old cars can have very high market value (but not any old car) and the same happens with boats.

Some old boats are, like the cars, part of a global heritage and the value comes from that. All sailboats designed by the great NA of the beginning of the last century worth a lot of money even if in bad shape and needing a lot of work. But the ones that worth a lot of money are just, like the cars, a minority and far from any old boat.

By the way a friend of mine bought in the US a Jaguar type E, bring it to Portugal and recovered it to knew condition. Beautiful car. He bought it not for much and now is worth a lot of money

Regards

Paulo
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  #44  
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Re: Life Span of a Boat



This is a classic 1970 35" boat and on the dead sea that is Long island sound



You need to make a good start and control the race as in typical 7 knots conditions that new fangled much faster 36.7 is STAYING right were he is BEHIND US unless we make a epic mistake



Thats pretty much were the spirit boat spent the rest of the day out of sight

ON the other hand on a different day with wind that favors there offwind speed they would kill us
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  #45  
Old 02-02-2013
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Re: Life Span of a Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Yes, except that is not happening with all the cars, I mean being valuable and worth of restoring but just to a few precious few, the ones that have an iconic value. I guess the same will happen to the boats, I mean, not to all boats but just to a few iconic ones.

Regarding fiberglass, it will not rust but will degrade, as Jeff has explained previously. Regards Paulo
Quote:
It's reached the point where restorers are even doing 4 doors once they get old enough.
There're a lot more cars than the iconic ones being restored, hot rodded etc.

When I was a hot rodding teenager, we laughed at anyone who drove a 4 door anything but now if they are old enough they get used too - there simply aren't enough of the "good ones" to go around.

I doubt anyone will ever bring back an old trailer sailor from the grave but Cals, Ericsons not to mention old Pearsons and the like - it's already happening. There are a number of Aeromarine and Pearson Bounties that are like new for example.

An awful lot of people would drive old finned cars if they could fix and update them themselves like they can boats.

Just like people restore Victorian and Craftsman style houses - they aren't nearly as functional or liveable as current designs but they have a charm and attraction of their own.
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  #46  
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Re: Life Span of a Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarguy56 View Post
The cars without the iconic names but much older are showing up at Pebble Beach, Montery, Concours De Elegance car shows are costing hundreds to thousands more than the face value of the car when they were first sold... some of these cars are going for millions and yet they were sold for $500 or less when new...

Many old boats/airplanes to a degree follow the same route albeit maybe not commanding the millions cars are doing in shows/auctions... boats seem to be in a different category that is hard to define in terms of 'value'... The value seems to be what the new owner sees in the benefits of new boat ownership rather than the value of investment for a future sale after restoring it or bringing it up to bristol state... a degree of satisfaction/pleasure???
I think it's mostly they just aren't old enough yet. The big deal in old cars for the past few years has been muscle cars - they were out of production before the big boom in glass boats hit.

Give it a few years - the kids who started sailing during the IOR years will be restoring old warhorses from little more than the mouldings. Those will be the boats they lusted after from afar when they were kids - just like cars.
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Re: Life Span of a Boat

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Originally Posted by tommays View Post
That boat is 43 years old - time you took the plastic wrapper off the toilet seat grannie.
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  #48  
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Re: Life Span of a Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
But the cars that you see there selling for a fortune are not Chevies from the 70's but high-end cars or really old cars that are very rare . I had a look:



In fact we are saying the same thing: The value of a boat ( if we don't consider the subjective value that a owner attributes to it) like the one of a car, is the value at what it can be sold on the market.

Some old cars can have very high market value (but not any old car) and the same happens with boats.

Some old boats are, like the cars, part of a global heritage and the value comes from that. All sailboats designed by the great NA of the beginning of the last century worth a lot of money even if in bad shape and needing a lot of work. But the ones that worth a lot of money are just, like the cars, a minority and far from any old boat.

By the way a friend of mine bought in the US a Jaguar type E, bring it to Portugal and recovered it to knew condition. Beautiful car. He bought it not for much and now is worth a lot of money

Regards Paulo
Paulo, the huge money goes to the very rare cars but pretty ordinary stuff commands big bucks as well, again, once it gets old enough.

My personal "missed chances";

289 Cobra FIA spec for $7K - now $250K +++
4.2 E-Type for $2700 - now $75k++
440 6 pack Cuda for $4k, now $100K+
DB5 Aston for $2700 - now $150K+
AC Ace Bristol for $3500 - now $100K+
AC Aceca for $7K - now $100K+
Ferrari 250 GT Lusso for $20K - now $800K
Shelby GT350 for $5500 - now $150K+

There's more but it's starting to hurt. Note - they were all just "used cars" for enthusiasts then - well before they became classics. That's nearly $2 million worth of cars now that would have cost me $52K

How much will a Bermuda 40 be worth in 30 years?
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  #49  
Old 02-02-2013
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Re: Life Span of a Boat

One thing holding boats back from the kind of appreciation you see cars getting at Pebble Beach. The cars that are fetching gross sums of money are all restored to how they rolled out of the factory all those years ago. Boats tend to go through refits on a fairly regular basis.
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  #50  
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Re: Life Span of a Boat

Agree with Paulo any conveyance will have a "service life". Further agree that design,construction, maintenance and nature of use impact on service life. Finally agree that most of us would cry to see a Wlliam Fife hull put to the torch. But disagree that cost of ownership of a new boat is prohibitive if the boat is to be used voyaging or as liveaboard. Need to consider absence of need to replace many components ( haven't used a loran in some time) or need to upgrade or replace worn elements. With well constructed new boat one can expect those expenses will be mimimal for a decade or more. Also material costs can be expected to continue to rise. Glass re inforced plastic hulls are made of plastic from oil. Cost of a carbon fibre mast has doubled in my life time.In "real dollars" and annual expense it's not as bad as one would think at first blush. With sailboats going over 50kt+ and averaging over 20Kt in blue water the race crowd is on very different boats than the rest of us.Gone are the days when a boat could be both true racer and a cruiser. Following the service life thinking thinking maybe strip plank or cold molded wood epoxy boats are not such a bad deal or even traditional plank on frame. I say once you have educated your kids and seen them married go ahead and spend the inheritiance - just leave enough for a pleasant nursng home and to carry them throuh hard timesLOL.
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