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  #21  
Old 02-10-2013
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Re: In regards to Lightning

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowraiths View Post
Imo, they should call it lightning strike current dissipation, in that is what these systems seemed to be designed to do.
.... well it certainly appears as if a few of the Womboat's systems are very dissipated indeed ....
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Last edited by tdw; 02-10-2013 at 05:10 PM.
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  #22  
Old 02-10-2013
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Re: In regards to Lightning

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Originally Posted by tdw View Post
.... well it certainly appears as if a few of the Womboat's systems are very dissipated indeed ....
Yes indeed

I have posted in other threads the same thing before. I think it is only common sense to provide a pathway for the charge to get out of the boat should the lightning DECIDE to follow it. There is no guarentee that will happen. That doesnt cost a lot of money.

In addition There is no system short of not having the boat which will prevent you from being struck.

In our case the investigation concluded that the lightening hit the tower next to us 100 yards away. Traveled through the water. Entered the boat either through the prop or the metal grounding plate and then into the engine panel and the main circut panel. The lightening traveled out of the boat going UP our mast and jumped to the boat next to us trough the mast. ( The man on the boat saw it jump between our masts) It blew pinholes into parts of his hull which were noticed after he was pulled simultaneuosly with us.

There were 10 boats which sustained damage from this particular lightening strike in Back Creek Annapolis,
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  #23  
Old 02-10-2013
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Re: In regards to Lightning

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Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post

What i am saying however to beware of spending enormous amounts of money on lightning deflection devices, preventions and that the clains of their protection or directive capabilities are often overexagerated. Deploy them, but dont expect them to work
So, then - your approach to this issue is based on what? Superstition? (grin)

What would be an example of a lightning "prevention" device in common usage on sailboats that run into an "enormous amount of money"? By far the most common I see out there are Forespar's Static Dissapaters... Even adding up the total of 19 that MALTESE FALCON has fitted on her rig, still seems like pretty cheap insurance on a $100+ million yacht, to me...

Or, perhaps Tom Perkins, his Captain, and the folks at Perini-Navi simply viewed them as Good Luck Charms?

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Old 02-10-2013
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Re: In regards to Lightning

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Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post

If there was a definitive answer to this why do the insurance companies not recommend it as it will save them major money? Or give people doscounts for utilizing lighning protection devices.
There are some insurance companies who want the boat bonded. I did two last summer where the surveyor noted the mast was not bonded.

There is no such thing as "lightning protection" or "lightning prevention" but a properly installed bonding system can help to minimize damage.

Problem is that most bonding systems are so neglected and pretty darn useless by the time you get hit that I would not even consider the boat bonded due to corrosion... On older boats the lightning bonding wiring was also pretty darn small so even if the system had no corrosion....

When our boat was hit she suffered zero hull damage but over 25k in electronics. Lightning exited through the keel and the spar is bonded with 2/0 wire.. I just finished repairing (well almost complete) two boats hit back in September, both were bonded and neither had any hull damage.
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Old 02-10-2013
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Re: In regards to Lightning

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
So, then - your approach to this issue is based on what? Superstition? (grin)

What would be an example of a lightning "prevention" device in common usage on sailboats that run into an "enormous amount of money"? By far the most common I see out there are Forespar's Static Dissapaters... Even adding up the total of 19 that MALTESE FALCON has fitted on her rig, still seems like pretty cheap insurance on a $100+ million yacht, to me...

Or, perhaps Tom Perkins, his Captain, and the folks at Perini-Navi simply viewed them as Good Luck Charms?

The I am sure you have these on your mast. I had a dissapator also.

If there truly was and an actual scientifically tested way of minimizing the damage the insurance companies would be the first to either recommend or give reduced rates to people who used them. The fact that they dont is telling.

Hypothesis sound good especially when a few scientists use logic to prove them, Reality how means it can be duplicated, tested, and quantified. The hypothesis of the universe were many and varied and most sounded reasonable and had rationale as well as scientific evidence that appeared to back them up. Yet as more and more facts become available the hypothesis is either disproved or changed.

If it gives you piece of mind go ahead and spend the money but the only prevention to me is not having a boat and the best prevention is having good insurance and not touching metal in a storm. Short of that stay safe.
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  #26  
Old 02-10-2013
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Re: In regards to Lightning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
There are some insurance companies who want the boat bonded. I did two last summer where the surveyor noted the mast was not bonded.

There is no such thing as "lightning protection" or "lightning prevention" but a properly installed bonding system can help to minimize damage.

Problem is that most bonding systems are so neglected and pretty darn useless by the time you get hit that I would not even consider the boat bonded due to corrosion... On older boats the lightning bonding wiring was also pretty darn small so even if the system had no corrosion....

When our boat was hit she suffered zero hull damage but over 25k in electronics. Lightning exited through the keel and the spar is bonded with 2/0 wire.. I just finished repairing (well almost complete) two boats hit back in September, both were bonded and neither had any hull damage.
Agreed that may have helped mine also, it may have also been how the lighning got on the boat as it didnt hit the mast. Do you know off hand which insurance companies want them bonded. Undertsand I am not saying not to bond them. Thats not expensive or extensive/ Just dont go for the other stuff.
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Last edited by chef2sail; 02-10-2013 at 07:45 PM.
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Re: In regards to Lightning

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
So, then - your approach to this issue is based on what? Superstition? (grin)
American Indian Choctaw Lightning Dances accompanied by good old prayer in Hebrew.

Every lightning storm now I get on the foredeck semi-naked with warpaint ,,,,,and start chanting waving my Bushmaster Rifle for effect

My wife gets out the Ben Franklin kite and key with the alligator clips and the 2 gauge wire and connects to the mast cable leading to the bronze plate on our hull and we attempt to " catch lightning in a bottle" We figure if we try and get hit it will do the opposite Reverse psycology is a tried and tested method of keeping Murphy in the closet ( no comments)

We tried the bonding alone before and it didnt work on its own as we were struck with a bolt and scary adventure.

We figured now we have all the avenues covered....bonding, spiritual, 2nd amendment protection and Murphys Law...what else is there.
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Last edited by chef2sail; 02-10-2013 at 08:05 PM.
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  #28  
Old 02-10-2013
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Re: In regards to Lightning

Interesting that Chef mentions that the main lighning bolt didn't hit his boat bu came down nearby.

I've just got off the phone from talking with insurance agent and he said its likely the same thing has hapenned to us. H reckons that if we had a direct hit there would be molten aluminium all about the deck.

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Re: In regards to Lightning

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
The I am sure you have these on your mast. I had a dissapator also.
Actually, I decided to go the air terminal route, instead...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
If there truly was and an actual scientifically tested way of minimizing the damage the insurance companies would be the first to either recommend or give reduced rates to people who used them. The fact that they dont is telling.
I generally don't take too much direction from the dictates of insurance companies... If I did, for example, I'd never head south from Norfolk before November 1...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
We tried the bonding alone before and it didnt work on its own as we were struck with a bolt and scary adventure.
Uhhh, bonding in itself has virtually nothing to do with 'preventing' or decreasing the likelihood of a strike...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Hypothesis sound good especially when a few scientists use logic to prove them, Reality how means it can be duplicated, tested, and quantified. The hypothesis of the universe were many and varied and most sounded reasonable and had rationale as well as scientific evidence that appeared to back them up. Yet as more and more facts become available the hypothesis is either disproved or changed.

If it gives you piece of mind go ahead and spend the money but the only prevention to me is not having a boat and the best prevention is having good insurance and not touching metal in a storm. Short of that stay safe.
Well, until "more facts become available", I'll just have to go with the sort of "hypotheses" outlined in papers like the following... I'd prefer to be a bit more pro-active in my efforts to minimize the risk, rather than simply accepting the notion that "nothing more can be done" than making sure your insurance is paid up...

Call me superstitious, I guess... (grin)

Complexities of Marine Lightning Protection, Part 1 >> Evaluation Engineering

Last edited by JonEisberg; 02-10-2013 at 08:55 PM.
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Old 02-10-2013
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Re: In regards to Lightning

I really do not know if static dissipaters work or not, and do not have any expertise in that area and frankly am quite electrically challenged. I do have one installed though and am not bonded. I have never owned a boat which was bonded. I, knock on wood, have never been hit, in the last fifty years, but do not claim that to be for any particular reason. I installed the fore-spar unit many years ago, and it was on my previous boat also.

The primary reason is this. Entergy Corp., the provider for the New Orleans area, has major power lines which cross Lake Pontchartrain near I-10 and run for five miles from south shore to north shore along the Hwy 11 bridge. On top of each tower there sits a static dissipater fore-spar like bush, much larger of course but a dissipater never the less. Who am I to question Entergy?
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