SailNet Community

SailNet Community (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/)
-   General Discussion (sailing related) (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/)
-   -   Seeking recommendation for light air Sail (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/general-discussion-sailing-related/96554-seeking-recommendation-light-air-sail.html)

lr172 02-11-2013 06:50 PM

Seeking recommendation for light air Sail
 
Last year we purchased a Hunter 34 and sail on Lake Michigan. We are still learning, but competent enough to enjoy ourselves. We have a lot of light air days around here in the 5-8 kt. range that make sailing far less enjoyable than winder days. I am looking to add a sail that will help in this area. We have a 150 Genoa on the furler, but it doesn't do much in these light winds.

Our boat came with a 170 jib that we have not yet used. It is made of a lighter dacron and has a bolt rope in the Luff. I assume it requires installation on the furler, as opposed to flying free like a Drifter. We also have a symmetrical spinnaker, but we don't use it, as I don't have much of a crew and for pleasure sailing we don't need to go downwind that often.

I would like to purchase or make, via a kit, a head sail that will allow me to keep moving in the light air. I prefer a sail that does not require me to take down the Genoa from the Furler and can easily be stored in a bag without folding.

I have read a lot about Drifters, Reachers and Asym Spinnakers (would use a sleeve for easy handling), but am struggling to determine which is best for my application. I am looking for something with versatility, but am more focused on Reaching, as I have the Sym. Spin. for downwind. I am hoping tap the experience of the Sailnet group in my search.

Thanks in advance for any experience or guidance that you can provide.

Larry

PCP 02-11-2013 08:26 PM

Re: Seeking recommendation for light air Sail
 
it seems that what you need is a code 0. A kind of geenaker but with the shape of a huge genoa. With that one you can go upwind at 50 or so and it will work till you can use the spinnaker.

<iframe width="890" height="501" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/aRgf_LfWb0Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

zz4gta 02-11-2013 09:00 PM

Re: Seeking recommendation for light air Sail
 
I don't think you'll get to 50* true, but yes. A code zero on a furler would be the sail you're looking for. A bag really won't help you in this case.

http://www.facnor.com/uk/products/ge...8.gif?53295,52

This option is nice, but it's not cheap.
Harken Code Zero Furling Unit 00

lr172 02-11-2013 10:04 PM

Re: Seeking recommendation for light air Sail
 
do each of these options perform similar in light air or is one better than the other in light air? Will one give me a better range of wind options?

I am hoping to keep cost in check here and would prefer not to purchase a furler. Can the Geneker and Code 0 by flown without one?

Thanks.

PCP 02-11-2013 11:01 PM

Re: Seeking recommendation for light air Sail
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zz4gta (Post 988860)
I don't think you'll get to 50* true, but yes.

I mean 50...apparent;) at least I use to do that with mine. They say 40 apparent wind but it works not very well so close to the wind.

JonEisberg 02-12-2013 08:56 AM

Re: Seeking recommendation for light air Sail
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lr172 (Post 988884)
do each of these options perform similar in light air or is one better than the other in light air? Will one give me a better range of wind options?

I am hoping to keep cost in check here and would prefer not to purchase a furler. Can the Geneker and Code 0 by flown without one?

Thanks.

Based on your original description, a Code 0 is definitely what you want... Mine seems cut slightly deeper, and with a higher clew than the one shown in Paulo's video, but it's a fantastic sail... No other sail will so often make the difference between sailing, and motoring, and I continue to be surprised more cruisers don't carry one...

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/j...code0cabot.jpg

In my experience, they don't perform as well as close to the wind as North claims, close to 50 degrees or so I lose any advantage over my genoa, even in the lightest air... Crack off a bit, however, and the difference is obvious...

You could fly one without a furler, but dousing it when the breeze comes up to the upper limits of its wind range can be a challenge... Unfortunately, the Code 0 furlers are pricey, but they're a great setup. Keep your eye out on eBay, there was a small Facnor identical to mine offered recently at a very good price, I don't believe it sold, so might be re-listed... You could always use a snuffer, as well... Not ideal for a Code 0, but will certainly work, and are more affordable than a furler...

Look at the websites for the major sailmakers, lots of good information on these sails found there...

PaulinVictoria 02-12-2013 10:43 AM

Re: Seeking recommendation for light air Sail
 
Why not just try flying your light 170? Hoist it up on a spin halyard and use it like a code0. If it doesn't work then you haven't lost anything, if it does then you've just saved yourself a few thousand bucks :)

sailortjk1 02-12-2013 11:03 AM

Re: Seeking recommendation for light air Sail
 
Where do you guys Tack your code O? A Hunter 34 I would think would need some modifications even possibly one of those snubby sprits to attach the tack line.

I was able to attach a block right to my anchor roller for the tack line of our Asymmetrical. Very little extra work involved.

Quote:

I am looking for something with versatility, but am more focused on Reaching,
For reaching I would go Asymmetrical and for short crew (like most of us) a sock.

overbored 02-12-2013 11:28 AM

Re: Seeking recommendation for light air Sail
 
seem that you already have the sail you are looking for. try the 170. if not a gennaker is a good sail for a cruising boat. a code 0 is a bit much to handle unless it is on a furler. they are designed to be used on a race boat that is rated for a fractional jib to be called a spinnaker for rules sake but can go up wind. they have a very limited points of sail and are not good for a beam or wider reach. a beam or wider you should be using an Asymmetrical spinnaker. or gennaker code 0 sails are very expensive $ 3500 to 4000 for your boat. a code 0 sail that is cut higher at the clew and fuller is not a code 0 it is a gennaker made out of expensive code cloth. a true code 0 is a upwind sail for very light winds under 7 knots.

RichH 02-12-2013 12:38 PM

Re: Seeking recommendation for light air Sail
 
Rather than focusing on light wind sails, etc., I would suggest that precise trim, sail SHAPING, and boat underwater condition would be much more 'profitable' than any new sails by themselves.

Such suggestions will result in better light wind performance than anything else ... and possibly with what you already have in your current inventory.

I dont know your 'expertise' at all; but, the usual course is to start with such as: Sail Trim Chart and Sail Trim Guide, etc.
...... to learn how to PRECISELY trim so that any sail that is flown is operating at its maximum output. And, then progress up through advanced trimming and sail shaping until your boat is 'flying' in light winds. Much of this advanced info is available on the web and isnt usually found in 'how to sail books', etc. :
examples -
ArvelGentry.com ---> magazine articles --->
Checking Trim on the Wind, November 1973
Achieving Proper Balance, December 1973
Sailing to Windward, January 1974
Are You at Optimum Trim?, March 1974

This 'process' will include good bottom prep, including SMOOTH bottom paint, and a relatively CLEAN hull, etc.

And THEN once you gain 'mastery', you can consider sails that are designed and cut for your 'exact' wind and wave conditions .... the sails are made exactly to YOUR helmsmanship ability, and exact sailing venue needs and requirements.
This would include the use of 'racing cut' sails with 'fine' or flattish luff shapes, etc. etc. instead of the 'one sized fits all' *cruisers cuts* (stock, plain vanilla sails) that are only applicable at 12-15kts of wind strengths .... and are built as 'forgiving' for the 'inattentive' helmsman in mind --- always a 'sad' compromise, especially for light wind sailing.

All this 'starts' by the usage of a FULL set of tell tales, including "gentry tufts" ... and there isnt any other way to do this !!!!!!
Gentry Tuft System
A Truer Tale of Telltales
..... and this is 'just the beginning' of a long process to build 'bombproof expertise' of how the wind is 'flowing over the sail surfaces' and what 'shaping' of the sails is required to get this 'maximum'.

For those just "entering" this process of sail trim and sail shaping 'mastery', there is a fairly decent forum discussion: Sail Trim with Don Guillette - SailboatOwners.com Its an open forum, so you have to decide for yourself whats applicable to you, or not.




That 170 you have ... probably the WORST thing for the super light winds !!!!!! .... not enough energy in 'very light' winds to keep the air flow streams 'attached', and why BIG %LP jibs and genoas have virtually disappeared from usage.

:-)


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:20 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012