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post #31 of 49 Old 02-14-2013
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Re: my boat dances on a ball

I spend 2+ weeks on a Bavaria Vision 46 as the OP has and it was awful at anchor when there was a lot of wind. After a lot of experimenting, we came up with a few things that helped to make it much more pleasant.

First, we would roll the jib absolutely as tight as we could to try to reduce windage forward which is a really big problem as Jeff H describes.

Next, we would often use an anchor spring as some here have described to keep the boat sitting at an angle to the wind. We found that we had to have it 30 degrees plus to get it to behave which does significantly increase the windage but really lowers peak loads. In really bad conditions, this probably isn't an option.

As we did not have a drogue, we attached a bucket to the anchor chain as close to the boat as we could so that it would stay in the water. The idea here was to provide resistance to the bow moving around and prevent it from building up speed. I am waiting for someone to actually install a centerboard/daggerboard all the way forward for just this purpose.

Finally, in a few situations we idled the engine in reverse to keep the boat from surging forward.

One thing that we did not ever do but might be an option in bad situations is to set out a second anchor at a pretty large angle. This should help to keep the bow in one place more and limit the sailing.

I am really disappointed in how modern designs behave on the hook. Some are good but many are truly appalling and are not cruising boats in my opinion for this one reason, they are daysailors and dock queens. Getting the CLR and windage figured out should be part of the design process even if it involves making some compromises or having features (daggerboard forward for example) to help deal with it.
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post #32 of 49 Old 02-14-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: my boat dances on a ball

Thank you for the confirmation ( a subset of people in chat/reply have insinuated on over reacting/ F'ed up), if you were in the BVI, you were on mine.
We are trying to balance practicality vs convenience vs inexperience.

Cocking it is one option. surprised it would take 30 degrees.

we are kicking around an option of a drogue/sea anchor, set down by a mushroom.

I have noticed that several of the charterers are slipping.

rbt
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post #33 of 49 Old 02-15-2013
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Re: my boat dances on a ball

Just make sure if you alter your swing or dancing, you are swinging in conjunction with everyone else.

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post #34 of 49 Old 02-15-2013
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Re: my boat dances on a ball

My H-260 dances around the anchor like a stripper on a pole. So did my Mac-25 before her. it annoys me to no end but I have no way of stopping it since i have no real backstay to hank on a riding sail. Good news is its anchored in front of my house and therefor not in any danger of hurting itself or another boat.

Brad

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post #35 of 49 Old 02-15-2013
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Re: my boat dances on a ball

I found that our wind generator (FourWindsII) keeps the boat from sailing at anchor. It's mounted off the transom, far aft.

We sometimes use a riding sail (a.k.a. anchor sail) when the wind generator is secured. It also works perfectly for this.

Tightly furling the headsail doesn't make the problem go away on our boat.

And we often anchor with 2 anchors (Bahama mooring). That stops her from sailing at anchor when the boat is puling on both anchors. If the wind shifts, she starts sailing at anchor again.

I haven't tried it yet, since the riding sail and wind generator work so well, but a large bucket off the bow might work.

IMHO, for a rental, a (quiet!) wind generator would probably be the best option, since renters wouldn't have to deal with it at all. Other than that, maybe get an overly large dodger?

Regards,
Brad

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Last edited by Bene505; 02-15-2013 at 09:16 AM.
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post #36 of 49 Old 02-15-2013
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Re: my boat dances on a ball

Last night, a strong cold front passed over the Florida Keys, temperatures dropped like a stone and the wind suddenly went from nearly calm to 62 MPH, which was recorded at the local airport. I'm sheltered in the canal, and had the added benefit of a 75-foot motor yacht partially blocking the wind. However, a friend that is on a mooring ball in the middle of Boot Key on a 41 Hunter with a fin keel said the wind ripped through the area, his boat swung wildly on the ball, swinging 180 degrees, then whipped back in the opposite direction and heeled over sharply. He experienced a wild 30 minutes while the weather went nuts, followed by torrential rains that put four inches of water in my inflatable dinghy. Ironically, the boats in the harbor with full keels appeared to fairly stable.

Cheers,

Gary
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post #37 of 49 Old 02-16-2013
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Re: my boat dances on a ball

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Originally Posted by KIVALO View Post
My H-260 dances around the anchor like a stripper on a pole. So did my Mac-25 before her. it annoys me to no end but I have no way of stopping it since i have no real backstay to hank on a riding sail. Good news is its anchored in front of my house and therefor not in any danger of hurting itself or another boat.

Brad
Brad--

A riding sail does not need to be set on a back-stay. Take a look at Post #2 in this thread. A small Banner Bay Fin-Delta Riding Sail needs only a topping lift or halyard to set and will solve you problems. If you have a Bimini, a small spreader bar made of plastic pipe can be set up between the after guys and chafing gear wrapped around the guys where they might come in contact with the Bimini. On a boat the size of yours, you could likely use an old jib from something like a JY or Lido, picked up at a used sail dealer, set free flying and you'd be in business.

FWIW...

"It is not so much for its beauty that the sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."
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post #38 of 49 Old 02-16-2013
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Re: my boat dances on a ball

I've attached mine to the topping life a few times, it worked great. Just hauled up the top end using the halyard, anchored the forward clew using a short length of line to one of the cleats on the boom. When everything was stretched tight, the boat immediately stopping swinging on the hook.

Cheers,

Gary
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post #39 of 49 Old 03-12-2013
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Re: my boat dances on a ball

Hallucination – My wife and I are planning to cruise the Med and/or the Caribbean for a few years – a Bavaria Vision 46 is at top of our list at this stage. We have booked and are very much looking forward to a “test it out” cruise on your Hallucination. How, or have you, solved the “dancing on a ball” issue? Thanks very much.
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post #40 of 49 Old 03-12-2013
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Re: my boat dances on a ball

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Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
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Thanks for having pointed that to me. I have been sailing in light modern boats and they all behave like that, I mean swing a lot around the anchor when the winds over 15/18K. With heavier winds that is even worse. I solved the problem with a series of improvised ridding sails and even with a proper one designed by me. The swing can be reduced for less than half but not completely since the ridding sail has to catch wind to stop the boat from being pulled to one side, and then it starts a movement to the other side, over the wind till it catches wind again.

I can see that the design of that ridding sail is a very smart one. The boat in a frontal position to the wind is catching it on the two sails, on on each side and the boat should be kept stable on the spot without any lateral movement.

Someone have tried it?

Regards

Paulo


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