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post #31 of 91 Old 02-15-2013
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Re: Seasick medication

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Originally Posted by jobberone View Post
I assume you meant she would get less drug. The release rate is going to be the same per patch surface area applied to skin. The half life is less than 5 hrs so getting the full affect would take about a day. Elimination half life is about 10hrs.
Sorry if I have misled you. The release rate/area will always be the same. But she will getting half amount of the drug, and the steady state concentration will be half of what she needed to fight for the motion sickness. Scopolamine half life is about 4.5 in human, but I am not sure where the 10 hour T1/2 comes from.


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post #32 of 91 Old 02-15-2013
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Re: Seasick medication

Modern medicine grabs at designer drugs that invariably have some adverse affects. To downplay these affects they call them "side affects" as if that description somehow renders them acceptable. The truth is that an affect is an affect, maybe not a desired affect, or an acceptable affect, but nevertheless, it is an affect. So . . . do you want to live with them? I tend to go to the experts, people who have no vested interest but are there to get to the definitive bottom, the truth of truths. I go to . . . The Myth Busters. I'll wait while you roll your eyes . . . OK.

Now, the MBs had a show on motion sickness. They built a chair and stuck the red headed kid, Adam, in it and started him going. Did the same to Grant. They tried everything, Dramamine, Bonine, magnets, bands and the like. Both guys were sick, sick sick, rolling on the floor, yakking stuff up. I really felt bad. Then, came ginger root. Adam, who gets really sick, really fast, took the stuff and hit the chair. Five minutes of spinning (slowly) and he's still saying "Bring it!". Grant had the same experience. Ginger has been used for thousands of years. It's natural (so is death) and it's cheap. You can pick it up at Walmart. Best of all, there's no drug company paying for big advertising, cute bottles to get your attention, high tech research or bribes to the FDA to pass it. I'm not an organic food nut, but I'll stick with the simplest of solutions rather than dumping some exotic compound that will have me coughing up my spleen in a few years.
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post #33 of 91 Old 02-15-2013
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Re: Seasick medication

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NO NO NO NO NO! This is a very dangerous thing you are playing with here. Don't cut the patch, not even for an experiment, and if you must, then please wear gloves so you don't give yourself a toxic dose.

Using the words "only 1mg of drug" is very VERY concerning to me. You know not what you are doing here. Prescription, and other drugs, are not all equal in their effects at the same number of milligrams. 1mg of tylenol is ineffective, whereas 1mg of thyroid medication will give a heart attack to a healthy person.

1mg of scopalamine, delivered over 1hr with a cut patch is not "just 1 mg" it is 72 times the recommended dose. That could be fatal. If I were having this conversation in my office I would tear up the scopalamine prescription and call the patient's pharmacy and cancel all their other scopalmamine prescriptions.

Please be safe. These medications are safe and effective when taken as directed and dangerous or deadly when abused.

MedSailor

PS Why do you want to decrease the dose so badly? In the article I referenced above they mentioned that it looked like the times scopalamine didn't work were the times when not enough was given. If you really want to tinker with the dose, get the pill or injectable form of scopalamine and take a lesser dose that way.
i agree that one should not tinker with the finished products especially when the products are designed to cover a long period of time. For example, Scopalamine patch or long action extend tablet. The fear of dose dumping is dangerous, and it was a great concerns of the FDA and drug company in 1980s. Because of there reasons, Drug company would not use drug reservoir approach for their formulation.

In the 80's I worked with NicoDerm patch (CIBA GEIGY) in the clinical trials regarding its efficacy and pharmacokinetics. It uses a propriety zero order release polymer to deliver the drug. There was no dose dumping ever observed. Later, the same system was used for scopalamine patch.


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post #34 of 91 Old 02-15-2013
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Re: Seasick medication

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Originally Posted by DonScribner View Post
Modern medicine grabs at designer drugs that invariably have some adverse affects. To downplay these affects they call them "side affects" as if that description somehow renders them acceptable. The truth is that an affect is an affect, maybe not a desired affect, or an acceptable affect, but nevertheless, it is an affect. So . . . do you want to live with them? I tend to go to the experts, people who have no vested interest but are there to get to the definitive bottom, the truth of truths. I go to . . . The Myth Busters. I'll wait while you roll your eyes . . . OK.

Now, the MBs had a show on motion sickness. They built a chair and stuck the red headed kid, Adam, in it and started him going. Did the same to Grant. They tried everything, Dramamine, Bonine, magnets, bands and the like. Both guys were sick, sick sick, rolling on the floor, yakking stuff up. I really felt bad. Then, came ginger root. Adam, who gets really sick, really fast, took the stuff and hit the chair. Five minutes of spinning (slowly) and he's still saying "Bring it!". Grant had the same experience. Ginger has been used for thousands of years. It's natural (so is death) and it's cheap. You can pick it up at Walmart. Best of all, there's no drug company paying for big advertising, cute bottles to get your attention, high tech research or bribes to the FDA to pass it. I'm not an organic food nut, but I'll stick with the simplest of solutions rather than dumping some exotic compound that will have me coughing up my spleen in a few years.
MB is for entertainment only. Clinical trials are a serious scientific investigation undertaking. I hope FDA would not use MB result to either approve or disapprove the drug sold in the states.
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bribes to the FDA to pass it.
With this statement, it tells us that you are not very familiar with the drug approval process in the US and you are a layman in regarding in Internal Medicine.
Although your views are not unique, there are many share your thinking.


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post #35 of 91 Old 02-15-2013
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Re: Seasick medication

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Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
Motion sickness is a central nervous system mediated symtom which is subjected many environmental factor as well as psychological effect. Placebo can play an important role. So if the wristband works, great, keep using it until it fails. I assume if you go off shore with heavy seas, the wristband or ginger will not work.
Well maybe it is the placebo effect. All I know is that while sailing in Greece in following 4m seas (as a result of a Meltimi) my wife never batted an eye. This was a six hour run. That run made me green and I never feel the effects of seasickness. 1m waves used to turn her green prior to the wrist solution.
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post #36 of 91 Old 02-15-2013
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Re: Seasick medication

Good to hear that is working for your wife.

Since the motion sickness is mediated via the CNS, anything that feeds into the brain has some significance. For example:
1. Excessive alcohol consumption the night before
2. The huge greasy dinner and the indigestion the morning after
3. Doing so close work in cabin below for a few minutes during rough sea
4. Once the queasy feeling set in, hard to get rid off.

Motion sickness in general and things to do to avoid motion sickness
1. Affect more younger children than old people
2. Strong man can get just as sick as woman. Don't be wussy, take your medication when the medical officer or Captain request you the do so. If you get sick, other needs to take care of you and do your job. It is so unfair and will endanger the others and the ship.
3. If you get queasy, be a helmsman for a few hours, it will take the edge off
4. Do not eat cheese, milk or dairy product the day before.
5. Half full stomach is better than full
6. Hydration and plenty sleep
7. Get a few sleeping pills from your doctor, use it the first nite to if you can't fall into sleep easy. OTC does not work.


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post #37 of 91 Old 02-15-2013
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Re: Seasick medication

The Navy's remedy for sea sickness was scrubbing the floor you puked on.
Brought the source closer to the landing zone, less collateral damage.

Serving spaghetti the first meal underway helped, it came out easy. The acid in the sauce kinda hurt (I hear, never had a problem), but helped when cleaning

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Re: Seasick medication

other non pharm tricks that may help
1.lying down ( less stimulation to utricle and saccule lateral semi circular canals not as active) in berth or sette in center of boat. If not puking flat on back (symmetrical input).
2. Sleeping ( this decreases peristalsis- and may reset brainsten structures)
3.standing at centerline of boat with hand on fixed element.i.e standing facing forward holding top of dodger or stand and steer Use legs to absorb lateral motion. This decreases input to vestibular system and allows proprioceptive input to modulate conflict between visual and vestibular input.
If they are still sick I put a harness on them and lie them down in the cockpit. Much easier to clean up. I keep them out of the head. The confined space with little visual reference just makes them puke all the more. Find most people can live for days in a storm on Coke and snicker bars. The caffeine sugar and hydration keeps them functional and on watch.

s/v Hippocampus
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post #39 of 91 Old 02-15-2013
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Re: Seasick medication

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Originally Posted by kellysails View Post
Well maybe it is the placebo effect. All I know is that while sailing in Greece in following 4m seas (as a result of a Meltimi) my wife never batted an eye. This was a six hour run. That run made me green and I never feel the effects of seasickness. 1m waves used to turn her green prior to the wrist solution.
My wife uses the band and finds it gives immediate relief. I can't rule out a placebo effect, but it is a FDA approved device for post-operative nausea. It is very annoying that the band no longer is available with replaceable batteries - the new units have a shelf life of less than a year, and so if you aren't in rough or rolling water a lot it is a heavy price to pay.
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post #40 of 91 Old 02-15-2013
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Re: Seasick medication

I also use Ginger root with good effect. I find that eating something light when you start to feel sick helps. I drink Gatoraid when in rough seas. I try and stay out of the head, because the enclosed space does me in every time. Keep your eyes on the Horizon if possible.

I have popped an IV in my wife before and gave her IV phenergan, the combination of the antiemetic and a liter of L-Ringer is highly effective, but you need a RX for home IV therapy and somebody who is licensed to administer it.

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Last edited by IronSpinnaker; 02-15-2013 at 06:15 PM. Reason: Forum is censoring the common phrase for RX?
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