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Womboat Takes a Strike.

4K views 33 replies 16 participants last post by  outbound 
#1 ·
In regards to Lightning - overall not a good week.

Sigh.

Bear with me for a moment .... We are not very good at trading cars. We usually buy fairly good ones and then drive 'em into ground. The Wombet a Golf, me an Audi, both approx 12 years old. Trouble is they've been damn fine motors but alas this week the Golf repair bill for dead heater is more than the thing is worth and now my dear old A4 is gushing coolant. At least one, possible two new cars when I was hoping they'd both last until we disappeared over the horizon.

Then there was the failure of my repair(s) to our Zodiac after it had a run in with an oyster bed. Oyster won on a tko and despite three attempts on my part is still leaks like crazy.

So there you go not a great week. OK , not tragic just oh crap what next.

What next was climbing on board the Womboat yesterday to collect the Zodiac and send her to someone who is more capable than I. Unhooked the starboard covers to go forward, deflate, roll etc. Didn't even look at port side , nor turn on any of the electrics.

Well, thats that, pack up the zodiac, check the covers and there lying on the port deck is .... one TriColor masthead. What ? Wow that's weird, must have been some bird. Pick up tricolour, hey, what is all this black stuff. Hmmm.

Only then did we wander down below and oh dear .... no electrics on the house side. Engine started OK but no alarms, no lights, no engine instruments. House batteries, dead as dead can be. Barely enough in them to get a feeble glow from the panel diodes and no apparent charge going into them when engine running. Wind generator dead, solar also not charging. Top of the mast looks , through binoculars from another boat, like a blackened charred post nuclear strike mess.

Spoke with our mooring field neighbour who is a liveaboard and yep, last Friday he said the bang was so loud that he thought he had been hit and it turned the bay from night to day.

Now the Womboat has quite comprehensive lightning protection from masthead to keel yet still the anchor light and steaming light circuit breakers, which of course were turned off at the time, were nearly blown clear out of the board. I confess I didn't think to check the wiring where it exits the mast. I hate to think. She has no power running when we are not on board. Emergency bilge pump is left on of course but she takes no water so that would not have been a drain. Lightning ergo, seems to have taken out the house batteries.

Methinks a visit to our friendly insurer come Monday. Well at least they were friendly when they took our premium.

Andrew B
 
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#2 ·
Re: In regards to Lightning

Andrew,

So sorry to hear. We were struck last summer. Sounds similar in that the lightning was indescriminatet and knocked out what it wanted to. In ours the yanmar panel was fused but the ngine started and the batteries were fine. It avoided the radar pole and the radar bu crispfied the chartplotter and wind instrumnents leaving the depthfinder ok. It took out the white lights buty left the reds ok on the fixtures. It has a mind and path of its own and any attempt to contro or direct 65000000 volts is hokey pokey.

Make sure you get your thru hulls checked and look for pinholes in your fiberglass. Boat US ( Contineneal insurance) required and paid for an immediate haul and inspections. They were quiete good with our insurance claim which resulted in $12,000 in repairs

Sorry to hear my friend. We were in the cabin when we got struck and saw the flash ball from our panel. It sucked,

Dave
 
#4 ·
Re: In regards to Lightning

Thanks Dave. Appreciate your concern.

Caleb ... yes bonded.

Machine .... I wasn't inferring it did nothing. More that despite the protection she has still been given quite a wallop.

Andrew B
 
#5 ·
Re: In regards to Lightning

Show me the data not the hypotheses. Its snake oil and a means of making money installing expensive sytems. Tell me exactly what you have done to prevent being struck and how it has minimized it. tell me what you have deployed like the military munitions dumps?

Notes above are well documented facts, notes below are opinions.....

They are all opinions and logical thoeries and nothing more

We had all the preventers/ dissapators/ bonding and wre still struck ( sideswiped) by lightning last year in the midst of 1000 masts.

The best rpevention for lightning, is not touching metal objects and a good insurance policy.
I don't see where Sailing Jackson, or anyone else, is suggesting that anything can guarantee "prevention" from a strike...

So, then - does your unfortunate personal experience mean that you have removed all paths to ground on your boat, or any other "snake oil" measures purported to reduce the potential for a strike, or damage in the event of one? (grin)

TDW - sorry to hear about that, you've got your work cut out for you, unfortunately, hope your insurance company is cooperative... Perhaps Jeff H will weigh in here, I seem to recall his boat was hit years ago...
 
#6 ·
Re: In regards to Lightning

Pure guess work on my part but I'm figuring that while there is probably no way of avoiding a lightning strike providing a clear path from masthead to keel can minimise the damage.

If , and I say if, someone is selling lighting strike preventer then I tend to agree with Chef that we are into snake oil territory. OTOH, the aforementioned protection providing a decent earthing system should be quite valuable.

As I say, this is an area I know little about, but I reckon I'm about to get an education.

Andrew B
 
#8 ·
Re: In regards to Lightning

Imo, they should call it lightning strike current dissipation, in that is what these systems seemed to be designed to do.
.... well it certainly appears as if a few of the Womboat's systems are very dissipated indeed .... :eek:
 
#9 ·
Re: In regards to Lightning

.... well it certainly appears as if a few of the Womboat's systems are very dissipated indeed .... :eek:
Yes indeed:(:(

I have posted in other threads the same thing before. I think it is only common sense to provide a pathway for the charge to get out of the boat should the lightning DECIDE to follow it. There is no guarentee that will happen. That doesnt cost a lot of money.

In addition There is no system short of not having the boat which will prevent you from being struck.

In our case the investigation concluded that the lightening hit the tower next to us 100 yards away. Traveled through the water. Entered the boat either through the prop or the metal grounding plate and then into the engine panel and the main circut panel. The lightening traveled out of the boat going UP our mast and jumped to the boat next to us trough the mast. ( The man on the boat saw it jump between our masts) It blew pinholes into parts of his hull which were noticed after he was pulled simultaneuosly with us.

There were 10 boats which sustained damage from this particular lightening strike in Back Creek Annapolis,
 
#10 ·
Re: In regards to Lightning

Interesting that Chef mentions that the main lighning bolt didn't hit his boat bu came down nearby.

I've just got off the phone from talking with insurance agent and he said its likely the same thing has hapenned to us. H reckons that if we had a direct hit there would be molten aluminium all about the deck.

Andrew B
 
#11 ·
Re: In regards to Lightning

Back in the 80's I was working as a computer service engineer. This was back in the days when a simple basic computer cost $5000. One of the contracts our company had was for a commercial real-estate company. They had computer rooms full of computers and used them to keep a data base of real-estate listings in.

A storm had came through the area with very frequent lightening strikes. One bolt hit a tree across the street from the real-estate building. Agents watched a ball of lightening come off the tree and go through the closed window and into the side of one of the computers. It jumper from one computer to another until it passed through all 10 in the room. After that the now smaller ball exited and bounced down the hall and out the window at the end of hall.

Out of the 10 computer systems to be hit only half were damaged and none of the dozen or so people in the room were hurt. Also the damage done was a crazy mix of things.

I have been in the electronics service business for over 30 yrs. I have seen dozens and dozens of electronics damaged by lightening and I'd have to say none of the devices sold as protection can really help. There are a few that can help protect from power surges that come from the power supplied to the building or your boat. Say you are docked in a area with power that varies from 100 volts up to 150 volts. A good battery backup system can help level out the input voltage.

Another note about surge protectors, although they may or may not protect you from lightening damage, many of them are better built. Look for solid construction and a built in resettable breaker with a heavy cord.
 
#12 ·
Re: In regards to Lightning

I am as superstitious as all of you as my boat is bonded and has and had a dissapator. The bonding is to give it as many oppertunities to find a way out of the boat as possible as Maine sail said.

My point is it was useless in my lightning strike or it didnt work. Thats the point. After seeing 10 boats around me with all sorts of systems, dissapators, air terminals etc get struck and damaged by one bolt. It causes me to question its prevention. I am not leaving it up to chance at all as some of you have said. There is no gaurentee by any of these companies with their methods. They all admit that and none of them has any empirical data to back it up.

So if you chose to take thier leap of faith go for it. Its your money. I have wasted my money on plenty of things in life which didnt work as advertised. When someone says they are not sure if it works it doesnt give me a whole lot of sense of security it will, bu thats just hardheaded me.

My examples are are real life and personal ones with real life results vs hypothesis, theory, or personal opinions. One bolt...ten boats struck...some by water....some by mast to mast... all damaged to varying degrees....all bonded...some with dissapators....some with air terminals with invincability cones....none avoided being hit. Just the personal experience of one SN.

TDW...same thing maybe.....Mainesail...struck also... bonding may help direct....Maine/ TDW did you have an air terminal or dissapator?
 
#13 ·
Re: In regards to Lightning

If their was a preventative way to decrease lightning striking a boat, the insurance companies would be all over it.
But... but... but... there is no way to "prevent" lightning strikes. The best that can be done is to try to reduce the potential damage in the event of a lightning strike.

What I find interesting in your situation, is that the lightning struck tower a 100 yards away, and then traveled through the water, entering your boat, proceeded up your mast, and hopped to the neighboring mast. Makes for a curious electromag fields theory problem.

Importantly, it gives rise to the question, how does one protect their boat in that sort of scenario? After all, the papers I've read, thus far, seem to only account for direct lightning strikes as opposed to your situation.
 
#14 ·
Re: In regards to Lightning

Geeze jon, I think I am past that point. I obviously know what bonding is for.

Maybe i wasnt clear enough ...(grin):)

I have it ( bonding) and in fact I believe it is what allowed the lightning strike to travel into our boat and into the engine as well as the elctrical panel. That was the diagnosis of 2 experts, one insurance and the other a certified marine elctrician which none of us are.
If it came in though the ground, it often does, then bonded or not it makes little difference. Your prop shaft or "ships ground", is connected to the engine, engine is connected to ships neg DC bus. Negative DC bus connected to DC panel, VHF, Anchor light, electronics etc. etc..... I have worked on boats where it came in though the ground one of them was not bonded for either corrosion or lightning... Also seen just as many boats with fuzzy bottle brushes hit as boats without...In my experience strikes that come in though the ground side often destroy nearly all the electronics. My assumption is that there is no "switching" in the neg leg thus the current goes straight in the back door of the equipment.. On boats that take a mast hit sometimes some devices are skipped right over and still work after the strike where others are blown to smithereens..

And BTW I am a "certified marine electrician"....;)

BTW IIRC the customers policy was held by Marsh.
 
#15 ·
Re: In regards to Lightning

If it came in though the ground, it often does, then bonded or not it makes little difference. Your prop shaft or "ships ground", is connected to the engine, engine is connected to ships neg DC bus. Negative DC bus connected to DC panel, VHF, Anchor light, electronics etc. etc..... I have worked on boats where it came in though the ground one of them was not bonded for either corrosion or lightning... Also seen just as many boats with fuzzy bottle brushes hit as boats without...In my experience strikes that come in though the ground side often destroy nearly all the electronics. My assumption is that there is no "switching" in the neg leg thus the current goes straight in the back door of the equipment.. On boats that take a mast hit sometimes some devices are skipped right over and still work after the strike where others are blown to smithereens..

And BTW I am a "certified marine electrician"....;)

BTW IIRC the customers policy was held by Marsh.
Thanks. What you said is exactly what happened to us. It did come in the back door so to speak, which I here is very common in side swipe type of lightning. That makes sense.

We did lose virtually all our electrontics, charger, lights almost evrything which was opanel connected. Didnt affect pumps or the engine, but it fused the Yanmar Panel. A few LED lights the reds worked but not the whites. Didnt affect the refrigeration which I had turned off also. Didnt affect handhelds.

The flash ball in the salon was pretty scary. It was a humbling experience as we were sitting on the setee watching thes storm through the companionway not touching anything. Funny this was one of the most vicsious lightening storms I have been in and something said to take extra precautions.
 
#17 ·
Re: In regards to Lightning

And someone wants to try and sell you a little device to protect you...lol
Well, you do have to marvel at the success of some of these Lightning Protection Snake Oil Salesman, those guys are GOOD...

For example, imagine selling the entire aviation industry on the need for devices that are completely useless in reducing the buildup of static electricity on an ungrounded aircraft in flight, and thus acting as a conduit for step leaders... Who'd a thunk the engineers at an outfit like Airbus could be so naive, to buy into such nonsense?

So, would you care to fly into Dallas or Tampa late on a summer afternoon, in an airliner on which all the static wicks had been removed? If, in fact, one could find a pilot crazy enough to do so, or the FAA would have permitted the plane to take off to begin with?



Nah, pilots... they're probably even more superstitious than sailors...

Me, I'm thinking about replacing the air terminal at the top of my rig with an old 1-iron...

The golfer Lee Trevino probably has it right, as he famously quipped about the best lightning protection on the golf course during a thunderstorm being the simple holding of one of those clubs over your head, pointed towards the heavens:

"Hell, everyone knows even GOD can't hit a 1-iron..."
 
#18 · (Edited)
The posts in this thread also appear in another thread re lightning but the saga of the Womboat getting zapped and the process of repair and resuscitation may be worthy of its own thread so i'm moving a bunch of posts here. The old thread is still there in edited form, please pardon the odd duplicate.

cheers

Andrew B
 
#19 ·
What a collection of disasters:(. Well, think positive, you and your wife are healthy and that's what count's most. Sorry if I am giving you my own remedy but is what I use to think myself when all things seem to go wrong.

At least the boat was insured and that is a good thing because that is an expensive reparation. On the last summer we meet a Scottish couple that had a strike on their new cat, the insurance paid and it was a lot.

I hope everything starts to go right now;)

Regards

Paulo
 
#22 ·
When we suffered our lightning strike last summer the insurance company was not an issue. The most important factor for us was that our marine electrician was used to working with the insurance companies surveyor already. That relationship helped expedite repairs and they trusted each other.

After I made my the companies surveyor came aboard with me and the electrician and we went through everything. As far as electronics they replaced anything damaged with the same. If we wanted to upgrade and the same was available they paid for what we had had and we paid the upgrade difference. If it want available they paid for the closest similar item.

You will have to be the one to coordinate them and keep them on task. Lots of forms, pictures etc. They began he work immediately after the surveyor looked t everything and gave us verbal confirmations on starting replacements. It ok about 3-4 weeks,

We still can't believe the flash we saw inside our cabin a realize how lucky we are. Same with you guys. Glad you weren't aboard.

Dave
 
#23 ·
Sounds nasty... our condolences from down here, Andrew :(

Glad the engine runs - that's something at least and I do hope the mast itself is ok. Electronics can be replaced without too much bother, but rigging is annoying. Any signs of arcing around the chainplates?

Wish I were closer - I'd be out there in a flash...
 
#24 ·
Wow that was a bolt from the blue...... glad you and Wendy were not on board at the time.
Good luck with the repairs, at least you should have all new electrics and wire before you swollow the company office key.
 
#25 ·
I thought Wombats lived in burrows.... No lightning to worry about! I would have paid anything to see the Wombat's fur standing all out on end. :D

Sorry to hear about the news. Hopefully the rigging is still good and your insurer pays up well. Perhaps you can get some fancy new electronic toys!

MedSailor
 
#26 ·
Insurer thus far has been very helpful so I'm feeling relatively confident about them.

Waiting for timing from yard to haul the lady. She'll be out of the water for roughly two weeks minimum.

Med ... when it comes to lightning I wish I did live in a burrow.

One issue that needs mentioning is depreciation of electrical equipment. This is something that may or may not be a problem with anything that is fried.

Anywho .... we'll know a bit more in the next few days.

Andrew B
 
#27 ·
One issue that needs mentioning is depreciation of electrical equipment. This is something that may or may not be a problem with anything that is fried.
A, as good as it is/was, some of the stuff I've seen on board the Womboat is rather out-dated now and hence wouldn't be worth much at all.

Hopefully the insurers will cough up for new.. at least that's what I'd like tho expect they'd do. Who are you insured with?

The other issue will be your needing to come up to speed with the new gear - some of which will be radically different to operate (and not necessarily better in that regard) than your current systems... That in itself will be a right PITA. :(
 
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