MOB Recovery in gale conditions - Page 4 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree11Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #31  
Old 02-19-2013
美国华人, 帆船 教授及输送
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MD
Posts: 2,449
Thanks: 22
Thanked 20 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 9
rockDAWG is on a distinguished road
Re: MOB Recovery in gale conditions

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Under sail. No engine running. This can be done by one person . Great for couples who sail together. I am sure what your dingy comment refers to.
Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk 2
Ok, we were talking about different scenario. I was talking about the MOB in an off shore gale conditions in a sailing vessel with a working engine.

The dingy i referred to is a dingy sailboat without an engine.
__________________

Fine Print:
I am old school. Integrity is to do the right thing even when no one is watching.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #32  
Old 02-19-2013
smackdaddy's Avatar
Last Man Standing
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 13,138
Thanks: 85
Thanked 78 Times in 72 Posts
Rep Power: 9
smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough
Re: MOB Recovery in gale conditions

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
A visual of the heave-to, sail-to, heave-to

That is the method we practice as well.

If you time the first heave-to right, you can sometimes position the boat to maintain that initial heave-to and drift down to the MOB. Obviously you want to be careful of this in of heavy wind/seas (so you don't come down right on top of them) - but it can be a very quick way to get back to the MOB without having to go all the way back around.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #33  
Old 02-19-2013
jrd22's Avatar
Courtney the Dancer
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: San Juan Islands., WA, USA
Posts: 3,817
Thanks: 3
Thanked 15 Times in 15 Posts
Rep Power: 14
jrd22 will become famous soon enough
Re: MOB Recovery in gale conditions

I'm looking at the diagram Jack posted and trying to figure out a couple of things. OK, assume wind at 30-40 knots and combined wave/seas of 10'. For this discussion let's say that there is a reef (or two) in the main and the headsail is furled in 20% (the sails were set to match the conditions). You immediately heave to after the MOB call, so far so good, then you go directly beam to the wind (and temporarily get knocked over pretty good I would guess). Then you go DDW in a wing on wing configuration surfing over the crests and then pull out and get knocked over again while trimming the sails to try and go upwind. And you expect to be able to keep an eye on the MOB during all this? I don't have a better plan, in those conditions I think you (the MOB) are basically dead, but dropping the sails (after initially heaving to) and motoring into position upwind of the MOB would seem to be simpler. I confess to not practicing MOB much, except when I lose a hat or I see a fender or something floating near by, generally in winds under 20 knots.
__________________
John
SV Laurie Anne

1988 Brewer 40 Pilothouse

Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #34  
Old 02-19-2013
美国华人, 帆船 教授及输送
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MD
Posts: 2,449
Thanks: 22
Thanked 20 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 9
rockDAWG is on a distinguished road
Re: MOB Recovery in gale conditions

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
That is the method we practice as well.

If you time the first heave-to right, you can sometimes position the boat to maintain that initial heave-to and drift down to the MOB. Obviously you want to be careful of this in of heavy wind/seas (so you don't come down right on top of them) - but it can be a very quick way to get back to the MOB without having to go all the way back around.
If the boat has an engine, I can't see why not to take the advantage of the engine to get back to MOB, unless you have plenty crews on board.

Heave to initially makes sense, then follow by losing all sheets, use engine power to go back to MOB ASAP. I prefer to use as many pairs of eye as possible on the MOB than use crews to tend the sails.

But this is just me.
__________________

Fine Print:
I am old school. Integrity is to do the right thing even when no one is watching.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #35  
Old 02-19-2013
jackdale's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 8,860
Thanks: 26
Thanked 37 Times in 34 Posts
Rep Power: 6
jackdale will become famous soon enough
Re: MOB Recovery in gale conditions

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
Ok, we were talking about different scenario. I was talking about the MOB in an off shore gale conditions in a sailing vessel with a working engine.

The dingy i referred to is a dingy sailboat without an engine.
I am also referring to a sailboat with an engine. Like some others I am reluctant to turn it on. I would not release all sheets in gale conditions. I want everything sheeted in and under control.
__________________
__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203, 204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #36  
Old 02-19-2013
smackdaddy's Avatar
Last Man Standing
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 13,138
Thanks: 85
Thanked 78 Times in 72 Posts
Rep Power: 9
smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough smackdaddy is a jewel in the rough
Re: MOB Recovery in gale conditions

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
If the boat has an engine, I can't see why not to take the advantage of the engine to get back to MOB, unless you have plenty crews on board.

Heave to initially makes sense, then follow by losing all sheets, use engine power to go back to MOB ASAP. I prefer to use as many pairs of eye as possible on the MOB than use crews to tend the sails.

But this is just me.
We've always practiced with sails only - and never in anything above 20 knots.

Personally, I'm never against using the engine if necessary (as JRD mentioned above). The biggest dangers there, of course, are either mincing the MOB if you're pushed onto them while in gear, or getting a line wrapped in the prop at start-up if the crew's not paying attention (for obviously good reasons...they're watching the MOB).
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #37  
Old 02-19-2013
jackdale's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 8,860
Thanks: 26
Thanked 37 Times in 34 Posts
Rep Power: 6
jackdale will become famous soon enough
Re: MOB Recovery in gale conditions

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
If the boat has an engine, I can't see why not to take the advantage of the engine to get back to MOB, unless you have plenty crews on board.

Heave to initially makes sense, then follow by losing all sheets, use engine power to go back to MOB ASAP. I prefer to use as many pairs of eye as possible on the MOB than use crews to tend the sails.

But this is just me.
The method I use can be done by one person. In event that there is more crew, none have to tend to sails. In the heave-to position there are no flaying sheets or flying sails, everything is sheeted in. All eyes can be on the MOB.
knuterikt likes this.
__________________
__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203, 204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #38  
Old 02-19-2013
billyruffn's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,281
Thanks: 5
Thanked 27 Times in 18 Posts
Rep Power: 11
billyruffn will become famous soon enough
Re: MOB Recovery in gale conditions

These videos are really good, esp. the one where the dummy gets towed face down, which is certain to happen it the MOB goes over clipped on with the standard front attachment. My greatest fear has always been the situation where a single watchstander at night goes over clipped on -- how long is it going to take some one to wake up, get to the cockpit and stop the boat? Given what the dummy was experiencing in the video (which is probably what happened in the cross-channel accident), my guess is it's not survivable.

I guess the only solution to my worst nightmere is a rule that no one leaves the cockpit when alone on watch at night --- Nice rule, but that's a rule I have broken myself. You see, it's a nice, moonlit night, boat moving along nicely on a broad reach at 6+ knots, no big seas --- I'll just pop up to the mast and stop that rattle that's keeping my crew awake. And, bam!!! boat moves, foot slips, MOB being towed at 6 knots with the crew asleep below. Not good.

At least with this guy's new harness configuation the MOB would be alive -- soaked, and maybe beat up a bit, but alive and flopping along in the slip stream until someone wakes up and comes to his (or her) aid.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #39  
Old 02-19-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Norway
Posts: 685
Thanks: 6
Thanked 50 Times in 45 Posts
Rep Power: 9
knuterikt is on a distinguished road
Re: MOB Recovery in gale conditions

Interesting to follow the drift of this thread..

The problem addressed in the OP was a man drowning after falling overboard while still clipped on to the boat.

So there was never a situation where getting back to the MOB was a problem.

The reason he died was that he was dragged after the boat with head under water for a while before they started the effort to get him back on board.
It took 16 minute from the MOB was discovered until he was back on board.
From the report http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources...LionReport.pdf
Quote:
The mast man (the consultant cardiologist) immediately examined the skipper, but he detected no signs of life and determined that the skipper had died,
Food for thought:
  • The boat had a racing crew of 8 men, still it took 16 minutes to get the MOB back on board.
  • Would he survived if they had been able to get him back on board faster?
  • Or had he already drowned after being towed after the boat?
  • What could have been done different/better?
  • Can equipment be improved?
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #40  
Old 02-19-2013
jackdale's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 8,860
Thanks: 26
Thanked 37 Times in 34 Posts
Rep Power: 6
jackdale will become famous soon enough
Re: MOB Recovery in gale conditions

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrd22 View Post
I'm looking at the diagram Jack posted and trying to figure out a couple of things. OK, assume wind at 30-40 knots and combined wave/seas of 10'. For this discussion let's say that there is a reef (or two) in the main and the headsail is furled in 20% (the sails were set to match the conditions). You immediately heave to after the MOB call, so far so good, then you go directly beam to the wind (and temporarily get knocked over pretty good I would guess). Then you go DDW in a wing on wing configuration surfing over the crests and then pull out and get knocked over again while trimming the sails to try and go upwind. And you expect to be able to keep an eye on the MOB during all this? I don't have a better plan, in those conditions I think you (the MOB) are basically dead, but dropping the sails (after initially heaving to) and motoring into position upwind of the MOB would seem to be simpler. I confess to not practicing MOB much, except when I lose a hat or I see a fender or something floating near by, generally in winds under 20 knots.
A couple of things. (OK - more than a couple)

This is from a close reach / close hauled position.

The boats I have in these conditions have storm jibs, not furled genoas.

Tending to sails will take eyes off the MOB.

The first thing we do on an MOB is deploy a an MOB pole and hit the MOB button.

The first heave-to does see the boat heel a lot.

The main is sheeted in hard and stays that way. The DDW is with sails sheeted in. We do not touch the sails, unless we need to ease the forsail to get the bow up on the last heave -to.

In big winds this takes under a minute.

Because the boat is heeled on the last heave-to, there is less distance to reach to get the MOB. (I like to come in with the MOB at the shrouds.)

I have done this hundreds of times - I teach it.

We lost a TV antennae off Cape Scott one time in 20 knots winds and recovered it.

I also lost a lifering in Johnstone Strait in 25 knots and recovered it.

In those conditions we are tethered. Heaving-to to recover a tethered MOB would be easier.

BTW - downwind is a whole different story as you have to come about. But we still heave-to at the end.
chef2sail and smackdaddy like this.
__________________
__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203, 204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)

Last edited by jackdale; 02-19-2013 at 06:06 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Could you do COB recovery by yourself? davidpm General Discussion (sailing related) 77 04-17-2009 08:50 PM
MOB recovery device sailaway21 Gear & Maintenance 6 10-28-2008 09:46 AM
Quickstop COB recovery ccboston Seamanship & Navigation 6 04-11-2004 12:33 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:28 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.