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post #41 of 53 Old 02-19-2013
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Re: MOB Recovery in gale conditions

This thread is exactly why I love SN. Seriously experienced sailors teaching us all something.


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post #42 of 53 Old 02-19-2013
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Re: MOB Recovery in gale conditions

Another thought. The heave-to method works wonderfully with a life sling. We practiced that in Honolulu Harbour.

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post #43 of 53 Old 02-19-2013
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Re: MOB Recovery in gale conditions

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
The method I use can be done by one person. In event that there is more crew, none have to tend to sails. In the heave-to position there are no flaying sheets or flying sails, everything is sheeted in. All eyes can be on the MOB.
I sailed solo or single handed a lot during storm up to 40 knots with tack, gybe and anything in between I don't have enough confidence or risk to do a figure 8 or round-about to get the MOB. The burden of losing a crew to hard to bear.

If I were the captain and became a MOB and if my crews decide to come back for me, I would tell them to use the engine. If time permits, they can drop the main and take in the jib.

You must be a very good sailor and have the gut too.


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post #44 of 53 Old 02-19-2013
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Re: MOB Recovery in gale conditions

BTW - the number of crew I have had overboard = 0.

I had not read The Lion report in a while. They eased the sheets to slow the boat, what would have happened had they hove-to? Would that have lifted the skipper out of the water? Armchair quarterbacking ....

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post #45 of 53 Old 02-19-2013
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Re: MOB Recovery in gale conditions

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
A couple of things. (OK - more than a couple)

This is from a close reach / close hauled position.
If you're sailing in heavy conditions the reality is you're probably running deep reefs and shortened sails. Surely if you heave to immediately someone falls over the side, it is better just to let the boat get pushed down onto the MOB? Rather than risk crash gybes etc running back to him? Yes I get the cold water scenario and the need for speed but then the MOB should be kitted to withstand the cold as well.

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BTW - downwind is a whole different story as you have to come about. But we still heave-to at the end.
The picture presented makes more sense to me if you're sailing off the wind - then there is a need to get back upwind and around the windward side of the MOB so that you can drift back onto him (as above)

Anyway this is all semantics, I agree that the best medicine is staying on the boat and I have many times in earlier discussions said that there is no place on my boat for ballet dancers who move around the boat like it was the USS Ronald Regan. On my boat in heavy weather, you don't leave the cockpit if there is no-one else around and when you do, you move around on your hands and knees. Walk, dance, pirouette from point to point and you'll earn yourself a solid rebuke, maybe even a tight slap when you return to the cockpit.

Sorry, a little off the point, yes I suppose crotch straps on harnesses will do some good but staying on the boat is better.
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post #46 of 53 Old 02-19-2013
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Re: MOB Recovery in gale conditions

Jack, your diagram is for a “Quick Stop” method? (at least that is what we call it). For beam reaching and above, this is our preferred method. As you know, the boat needs to travel a little bit to get the Lifesling to trail out behind (those of you who think they can throw it out to the MOB, really need to practice with it.) The Quickstop does this and pulls the Lifesling in an arc to better capture the MOB. If you miss the MOB on the first pass, the Lifesling will "lasso" him. Downwind running with a spinnaker is an altogether different animal. In this case, we do a Figure 8 retrieval as we need to get the kite down first before we can go head to wind (though, we have done the maneuver utilizing a “Mexican” take down before). It is pretty scary to be the helmsman with the boat traveling away from the MOB at a high rate of speed while your crew are preparing for a short-handed take down.

It doesn’t matter if you are sailing or motoring – big seas are big seas and you do need to time your fall-off to downwind so you are not beam to the wave face. You do want to be proficient in your helming skills. Doing practice racing starts (and pre-starts) is a good way of gaining confidence in one’s boat handling skills under sail power. From the “what it’s worth department” all of our MOB practice is done under sail and over the past five years I have a perfect score – I will pick you up on the first pass every time.

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post #47 of 53 Old 02-19-2013
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Re: MOB Recovery in gale conditions

George There are some significant differences

1) In the quick stop, the head sail is dropped
2) There is no second heave-to in the quick stop
3) In the quick stop the pick up is usually on the windward side. I have seen some leeward pick ups.



Your downwind is trickier. All of the techniques are similar.. Get some distance between the MOB and the boat. Come about. Close reach / close hauled back. We then heave-to rather than luff sails.

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Re: MOB Recovery in gale conditions

Jack, If you can bring the boat around by “heaving to”, falling off into a run, and then lifting and luffing back to the MOB – What is the purpose of dousing the headsail? If you miss the pick up on the first pass, you will still have to foot off to gain headway before you can re-start and that puts you in a figure 8 retrieval for your second pass. Help me out here as I’m missing something. (is it by taking down the headsail and elongating the retrieval circle, you are giving yourself more margin and options if you don’t come right on the MOB?

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post #49 of 53 Old 02-20-2013
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Re: MOB Recovery in gale conditions

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Originally Posted by knuterikt View Post
Interesting to follow the drift of this thread..

The problem addressed in the OP was a man drowning after falling overboard while still clipped on to the boat.

So there was never a situation where getting back to the MOB was a problem.

The reason he died was that he was dragged after the boat with head under water for a while before they started the effort to get him back on board.
It took 16 minute from the MOB was discovered until he was back on board.
From the report http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources...LionReport.pdf
Hey,

What isn't clear in the report is the amount of time elapsed between when the skipper went over the side until he was discovered. At 0027 they noticed the genoa slipping into the water and commenced recovery of the sail. At 0036 they noticed a strobe light and recognized that someone was over the side and in the water. At 0038 they issued a mayday and were trying to recover the skipper. By this time, the skipped already appeared lifeless. How long was he in the water before they noticed?

I submit that the tether is what caused him to drown. I think he would have had a better chance of surviving if he had simply fallen overboard. At least he would have floated. A helo had already been dispatched. If he had a PLB or something like that, he stood at least a decent chance of being recovered.

I think the most important lesson is that if you are going to wear a tether, make sure that it's short enough to keep you on the boat.

Barry
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post #50 of 53 Old 02-20-2013
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Re: MOB Recovery in gale conditions

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Jack, If you can bring the boat around by “heaving to”, falling off into a run, and then lifting and luffing back to the MOB – What is the purpose of dousing the headsail? If you miss the pick up on the first pass, you will still have to foot off to gain headway before you can re-start and that puts you in a figure 8 retrieval for your second pass. Help me out here as I’m missing something. (is it by taking down the headsail and elongating the retrieval circle, you are giving yourself more margin and options if you don’t come right on the MOB?
I leave the headsail up for the reasons that you stated. The quick stop takes it down probably to prevent sheets from flailing around.

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