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  #1  
Old 02-27-2013
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Antifouling

More ads are showing up promoting antifouling paints that do not contain copper and/or that claim to leach few, if any, toxins into the water. I wonder if there is any objective information available on any of these "newcomers". How valid are their claims? Can they be applied over existing paints or must we go through the chore of sanding down what is there before starting new? How do they compare in cost? What else should be aware of when considering a more friendly method of keeping our hulls reasonably clean?

This may be more a subject for investigative journalism rather than collecting musings on a forum such as this, but if some substantive information on this is available somewhere, someone may be able to point me (and others) in the right direction.

Many thanks.
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Old 02-27-2013
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Re: Antifouling

If there are no toxins then why would the creatures not want to live there? If it is not toxic, then they have to come up with something the critters do not prefer.

Reminds me of the deer grass Penn State came up with back in the 70s. They developed a grass that deer did not like. They planted it all along route 80 in PA. Within 10 years, the deer had adapted and were eating that grass over the grass that was in safer places. When I drove route 80 in the 80s, there were herds of deer grazing right along the road.
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Old 02-27-2013
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Re: Antifouling

I know the San Diego Port District is big on this stuff. But as to how well it works I can't say. This whole thing started in San Diego where one of the small yacht basin with lots of boats and the copper content was high or so the study stated. Some have looked at the study and contend it was flawed. Someone might try Santa Monica Bay foundation or DockWalker they are big on this stuff.
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Old 02-28-2013
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Re: Antifouling

I like the copper free paints because I can use white on the bottom and it doesn't stand out over white primer or gelcoat when chalky or rubbing off and it's easy for me to see when I need to get in the water and clean my boat! Some copper free paints are better for fresh water and some for salt; I think the manufacturers are constantly trying to make them better and with time lets hope they are as good as copper based. I like Mission Bay Bottom Paint because it's been around a long time with a good record.
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Old 02-28-2013
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Re: Antifouling

Thanks, KJ, I'll check this out. I sail in freshwater, which may make things a little easier, but it will be instructive to find out just how good this non-toxic stuff is (or is becoming). I suspect, with nanotechnology, products may emerge that make it difficult for critters to get a grip...
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Old 02-28-2013
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Re: Antifouling

Tim R.. there are still herds of deer grazing the shoulders of 80. I suspect that the deer proof grass has long been overcome by more edible grass anyway. It's why we (PA) have fur lined highways.

Back on topic, I'd sure love to hear a decent eval on low copper content bottom paints (eco friendly if you will). Just had a convo with our one and only other sailor here at work and he was telling me stories of back in the 70s when you'd put the boat in the water, and see a trail of death (clear water) behind the boat in it's wake (killing off algae/crud as you sailed)... I hope that was an exaggeration, but he's a Chem-E so maybe not so much. I'd like to think we are further along than that now, but my very recent experience with the blue dust that was formerly my ablative bottom paint on my 30yo trailerable, I'd say maybe not.
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Old 02-28-2013
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Re: Antifouling

When I was looking a few years ago I stumbled on this 2part stuff that is used to coat swimming pool slides. A little bit of water and they become slicker 'n whale snot. The claimed that marine critters could not grab hold of the stuff plus it made you faster in the water since it is so slick. They're trying to break into the marine market. If you search you might find it. Oh, not toxic too. You have to figure, say 300 boat leaching toxins into the harbor for 9 months out of the year. It's surprising that anything grows.
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Old 03-01-2013
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Re: Antifouling

Quote:
Originally Posted by flandria View Post
This may be more a subject for investigative journalism rather than collecting musings on a forum such as this, but if some substantive information on this is available somewhere, someone may be able to point me (and others) in the right direction.

Many thanks.
You bet it is! Antifouling is HUGE business. When you think of a shipping company and how most of the worlds goods move around by sea (often many times from raw material to finished product) a few barnacles on tens of thousands of ships, or an extra month between haulouts on tens of thousands of ships is mega dollars.

There is even a scientific journal titled "Biofouling". Bottom paint; that's all it's about. You can purchase the March 2013 issue for only USD$499 here:
Biofouling:The Journal of Bioadhesion and Biofilm Research

Having done some research on this topic myself (when I say research that's with a small "r") the answer is basically copper is king. Except for tin that is, but tin is deemed too toxic.

There are some interesting fringe ideas being tested (such as the University of Texas's use of THC mixed with Cayenne) but the only thing out there that looks like it "might" unseat copper as a superior product is Ivermectin. It's an anti-parasitic drug available for humans by prescription for for animals through your veterinarian. Several studies point to it being superior to copper, but it is still under evaluation at this time.

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Old 03-01-2013
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Re: Antifouling

Quote:
Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
There are some interesting fringe ideas being tested (such as the University of Texas's use of THC mixed with Cayenne) but the only thing out there that looks like it "might" unseat copper as a superior product is Ivermectin. It's an anti-parasitic drug available for humans by prescription for for animals through your veterinarian. Several studies point to it being superior to copper, but it is still under evaluation at this time.
Back this up with links please.

BTW- two things on the horizon regarding copper in California:

1.- New study on copper loading (protocols and implementation done by paint manufacturer's lobbyist group) will throw hull cleaners under the bus. Worst case scenario- in-water hull cleaning is restricted or banned. Study to be released April 1, 2013.

2.- Copper ban legislation (currently tabled) will be reintroduced by a San Diego legislator.
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Old 03-01-2013
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Re: Antifouling

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fstbttms View Post
Back this up with links please.
Done. (sorry I was too lazy to back it up in the original post like I should have)

Everything mentioned above is linked/cited in this post:
What do you add (to improve) your bottom paint?

Further reading (almost all of it over my head) is here at the NIH (click the link above first)antifouling marine - PubMed - NCBI

Abstract from an article in the journal Biofilm linked in the sailnet post above. (underline emphasis mine):

Abstract
Rosin-based coatings loaded with 0.1% (w/v) ivermectin were found to be effective in preventing colonization by barnacles (Balanus improvisus) both on test panels as well as on yachts for at least two fouling seasons. The leaching rate of ivermectin was determined by mass-spectroscopy (LC/MS-MS) to be 0.7 ng cm−2 day−1. This low leaching rate, as deduced from the Higuchi model, is a result of the low loading, low water solubility, high affinity to the matrix and high molar volume of the model biocide. Comparison of ivermectin and control areas of panels immersed in the field showed undisturbed colonisation of barnacles after immersion for 35 days. After 73 days the mean barnacle base plate area on the controls was 13 mm2, while on the ivermectin coating it was 3 mm2. After 388 days, no barnacles were observed on the ivermectin coating while the barnacles on the control coating had reached a mean of 60 mm2. In another series of coated panels, ivermectin was dissolved in a cosolvent mixture of propylene glycol and glycerol formal prior to the addition to the paint base. This method further improved the anti-barnacle performance of the coatings. An increased release rate (3 ng cm−2 day−1) and dispersion of ivermectin, determined by fluorescence microscopy, and decreased hardness of the coatings were the consequences of the cosolvent mixture in the paint. The antifouling mechanism of macrocyclic lactones, such as avermectins, needs to be clarified in further studies. Beside chronic intoxication as ivermectin is slowly released from the paint film even contact intoxication occurring inside the coatings, triggered by penetration of the coating by barnacles, is a possible explanation for the mode of action and this is under investigation.

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Last edited by MedSailor; 03-01-2013 at 01:19 AM.
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