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  #31  
Old 03-04-2013
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Re: Catalina 42 ... Why not?

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Originally Posted by JimMcGee View Post
Hmm, when cruising you're not going to be constantly tweaking sails to wring every last ounce out of her .....
My wife would know you've never 'cruised' with me!
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  #32  
Old 03-04-2013
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Re: Catalina 42 ... Why not?

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My wife would know you've never 'cruised' with me!
LOL, OK so I'm more the mellow type

But if you get to the anchorage first you have to have the dark 'n stormies ready when we get there, we'll dinghy over with the munchies.

My point was sometimes small differences get amplified out of proportion in these threads. 15 seconds is HUGE if you're racing. Not such a big deal for cruising.

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  #33  
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Re: Catalina 42 ... Why not?

I sailed a Morris 32 with a wing keel from the Chesapeake to Marion Massachusetts to Bermuda and back to the Chesapeake. I believe Morris Yachts are considered seaworthy boats. However, it seemed to me that every time we started to get some real wind she would just lay over and play dead. We would have to reef way down when everyone else around us still carried full canvas. I've had experiences on other wind keel boats the would just slip sideways in a blow. Perhaps it's overly simplistic but I believe keel shape has nothing to do with it - fancy shapes don't matter. The only thing that matters is getting more mass further down in the water provides a better righting moment. Hence my decision to buy a fin keel boat. For me it's right choice. To each his own...
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Old 03-04-2013
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Re: Catalina 42 ... Why not?

Years ago I was the Measurer for the Catalina 34 International Owners Association. The C34 fleet had a very active one design racing component and a pretty rigorous one design rule which we calculated adjustments for things like roller sails and shoal draft keels. The problem with the PHRF formula is it tends to understate the impacts of things like change in displacement (shoal draft boats have heavier keels). For our 34 footers the difference in time between the two types of keels is more like 20-25 seconds per mile. This translates to a shoal boat being 3-5% “slower” than a normal fin keel. What the measurement doesn’t calculate is the tighter tacking angles of a fin keel. I’d say the fin is tighter by five to seven degrees. From my practical racing experience, I never worried too much about shoal boats as I could easily lift above them so I never had to split tacks, I’d just run them down and lift over them.

So you think this only matters if your are racing? IMHO, it is probably more important as a cruiser. The added weight in the shoal keel becomes a bigger disadvantage as the winds get lighter. So you are turning on the motor sooner and motoring longer. You are not as efficient clawing off of a lee shore, nor are you as efficient if your destination is upwind. My opinion is you have to be a really good and constant trimmer just to keep up with a lazy trimmer on a fin keel boat.
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Re: Catalina 42 ... Why not?

Obviously there's a need for shoal draft in certain areas.. in others, like the PNW there really isn't... I hate to see the builders concentrate on wings/shoal keels and fail to offer a deep keel option for those who need it.

We have a member here (Greyhound37) who has beautiful, quick boat - not with a real shoal keel, but one shorter than the deep draft option.. he's gone to the trouble and expense of changing to the deeper keel. Granted he races but still, one would need some motivation to spend serious money on that sort of thing.
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Old 03-04-2013
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Re: Catalina 42 ... Why not?

Maybe not many others would be impacted by this, but when my 4' 11" spouse was on a Catalina 42, she couldn't reach an overhead handhold in the 6' 8" salon.
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Old 03-05-2013
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Re: Catalina 42 ... Why not?

Mine's 5' 8" so I think she's good, but will check, thanks
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Re: Catalina 42 ... Why not?

With regard to C42 wing keel perf vs fin keel, I think we may be splitting hairs...

A quick review of both Narragansett and New England PHRF current ratings indicates there is AT MOST only a 1.0 to 1.5% difference in perfomance ratings based on actual boats actually being measured and actually raced...interesting...
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Re: Catalina 42 ... Why not?

I hate to be a shoot stirrer here but there is another option to the wing vs. fin debate for the C-42. Some friends of ours have owned a C-42 for the last 10 years or so that they bought in the Virgins from the original owner after he got caught out in a hurricane. The boat came through fine but the owner was so freaked out by the experience he was done with the boat. They bought her, for a very good price, and sailed her back to here to the southwest coast of Florida. She was the deep keel version and our pals thought a bit too deep for the area. So, they hauled her out and took a chain saw to her keel, lopping 6" off the bottom. We all thought Joe was "nuts" but he did save about 7" of her draft and quite a bit on her displacement. (I really don't know how much but a lot. He's still got the lead in his garage in case he ever wants to bolt it back on.) Despite everyone's misgivings, Wind Caller, has been sailed all over heck's half acre and performs very well over all and Joe and Casey are very happy with the boat. Up to 15-18 knots she stays on her feet and moves very nicely. They do have to reef down somewhat earlier than their sister-ships but, until about 18, she stays with, or mostly ahead of, the fleet. Joe is a good sailor and its a pain in the neck to always feel like he's breathing down your neck with that boat until the breeze really gets up.

FWIW...

PS: My (much) better half is only 4'-11" as well and she can't reach most of the hand-holds on that boat either. I am told they rig a grab rope from the companionway to the mast in snotty weather, just in case...
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Last edited by svHyLyte; 03-05-2013 at 11:09 AM.
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Re: Catalina 42 ... Why not?

See....fresh new ideas with every rehash ;-)
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