Catalina 42 ... Why not? - Page 4 - SailNet Community
 27Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #31 of 70 Old 03-04-2013
Just another Moderator
 
Faster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 16,534
Thanks: 104
Thanked 312 Times in 300 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Re: Catalina 42 ... Why not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMcGee View Post
Hmm, when cruising you're not going to be constantly tweaking sails to wring every last ounce out of her .....
My wife would know you've never 'cruised' with me!
JimMcGee likes this.

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Faster is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 70 Old 03-04-2013
Member
 
JimMcGee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Barnegat Bay, NJ
Posts: 1,758
Thanks: 61
Thanked 48 Times in 45 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Re: Catalina 42 ... Why not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
My wife would know you've never 'cruised' with me!
LOL, OK so I'm more the mellow type

But if you get to the anchorage first you have to have the dark 'n stormies ready when we get there, we'll dinghy over with the munchies.

My point was sometimes small differences get amplified out of proportion in these threads. 15 seconds is HUGE if you're racing. Not such a big deal for cruising.

.
Faster likes this.

95 Catalina 30 Island Time

The sail, the play of its pulse so like our own lives: so thin and yet so full of life, so noiseless when it labors hardest, so noisy and impatient when least effective." - Henry David Thoreau
JimMcGee is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #33 of 70 Old 03-04-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 551
Thanks: 3
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: Catalina 42 ... Why not?

I sailed a Morris 32 with a wing keel from the Chesapeake to Marion Massachusetts to Bermuda and back to the Chesapeake. I believe Morris Yachts are considered seaworthy boats. However, it seemed to me that every time we started to get some real wind she would just lay over and play dead. We would have to reef way down when everyone else around us still carried full canvas. I've had experiences on other wind keel boats the would just slip sideways in a blow. Perhaps it's overly simplistic but I believe keel shape has nothing to do with it - fancy shapes don't matter. The only thing that matters is getting more mass further down in the water provides a better righting moment. Hence my decision to buy a fin keel boat. For me it's right choice. To each his own...
SteveInMD is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #34 of 70 Old 03-04-2013
Senior Member
 
GeorgeB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Alameda, San Francisco Bay
Posts: 1,820
Thanks: 1
Thanked 53 Times in 52 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Re: Catalina 42 ... Why not?

Years ago I was the Measurer for the Catalina 34 International Owners Association. The C34 fleet had a very active one design racing component and a pretty rigorous one design rule which we calculated adjustments for things like roller sails and shoal draft keels. The problem with the PHRF formula is it tends to understate the impacts of things like change in displacement (shoal draft boats have heavier keels). For our 34 footers the difference in time between the two types of keels is more like 20-25 seconds per mile. This translates to a shoal boat being 3-5% “slower” than a normal fin keel. What the measurement doesn’t calculate is the tighter tacking angles of a fin keel. I’d say the fin is tighter by five to seven degrees. From my practical racing experience, I never worried too much about shoal boats as I could easily lift above them so I never had to split tacks, I’d just run them down and lift over them.

So you think this only matters if your are racing? IMHO, it is probably more important as a cruiser. The added weight in the shoal keel becomes a bigger disadvantage as the winds get lighter. So you are turning on the motor sooner and motoring longer. You are not as efficient clawing off of a lee shore, nor are you as efficient if your destination is upwind. My opinion is you have to be a really good and constant trimmer just to keep up with a lazy trimmer on a fin keel boat.
Faster likes this.

George B
2000 Catalina 34 MkII
Alameda, Ca.
GeorgeB is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #35 of 70 Old 03-04-2013
Just another Moderator
 
Faster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 16,534
Thanks: 104
Thanked 312 Times in 300 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Re: Catalina 42 ... Why not?

Obviously there's a need for shoal draft in certain areas.. in others, like the PNW there really isn't... I hate to see the builders concentrate on wings/shoal keels and fail to offer a deep keel option for those who need it.

We have a member here (Greyhound37) who has beautiful, quick boat - not with a real shoal keel, but one shorter than the deep draft option.. he's gone to the trouble and expense of changing to the deeper keel. Granted he races but still, one would need some motivation to spend serious money on that sort of thing.

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Faster is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #36 of 70 Old 03-04-2013
Water Lover
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New Mexico, USA (Heron, Elephant Butte lakes); Arizona (Lake Pleasant)
Posts: 762
Thanks: 3
Thanked 18 Times in 18 Posts
Rep Power: 6
 
Re: Catalina 42 ... Why not?

Maybe not many others would be impacted by this, but when my 4' 11" spouse was on a Catalina 42, she couldn't reach an overhead handhold in the 6' 8" salon.
rgscpat is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #37 of 70 Old 03-05-2013 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 205
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 6
 
Re: Catalina 42 ... Why not?

Mine's 5' 8" so I think she's good, but will check, thanks
malyea is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #38 of 70 Old 03-05-2013 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 205
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 6
 
Re: Catalina 42 ... Why not?

With regard to C42 wing keel perf vs fin keel, I think we may be splitting hairs...

A quick review of both Narragansett and New England PHRF current ratings indicates there is AT MOST only a 1.0 to 1.5% difference in perfomance ratings based on actual boats actually being measured and actually raced...interesting...
JimMcGee and jimrafford like this.
malyea is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #39 of 70 Old 03-05-2013
Old as Dirt!
 
svHyLyte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa Bay Area
Posts: 2,935
Thanks: 15
Thanked 129 Times in 122 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: Catalina 42 ... Why not?

I hate to be a shoot stirrer here but there is another option to the wing vs. fin debate for the C-42. Some friends of ours have owned a C-42 for the last 10 years or so that they bought in the Virgins from the original owner after he got caught out in a hurricane. The boat came through fine but the owner was so freaked out by the experience he was done with the boat. They bought her, for a very good price, and sailed her back to here to the southwest coast of Florida. She was the deep keel version and our pals thought a bit too deep for the area. So, they hauled her out and took a chain saw to her keel, lopping 6" off the bottom. We all thought Joe was "nuts" but he did save about 7" of her draft and quite a bit on her displacement. (I really don't know how much but a lot. He's still got the lead in his garage in case he ever wants to bolt it back on.) Despite everyone's misgivings, Wind Caller, has been sailed all over heck's half acre and performs very well over all and Joe and Casey are very happy with the boat. Up to 15-18 knots she stays on her feet and moves very nicely. They do have to reef down somewhat earlier than their sister-ships but, until about 18, she stays with, or mostly ahead of, the fleet. Joe is a good sailor and its a pain in the neck to always feel like he's breathing down your neck with that boat until the breeze really gets up.

FWIW...

PS: My (much) better half is only 4'-11" as well and she can't reach most of the hand-holds on that boat either. I am told they rig a grab rope from the companionway to the mast in snotty weather, just in case...

"It is not so much for its beauty that the sea makes a claim upon men's hearts, as for that subtle something, that quality of air, that emanation from the waves, that so wonderfully renews a weary spirit."

Last edited by svHyLyte; 03-05-2013 at 11:09 AM.
svHyLyte is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #40 of 70 Old 03-05-2013 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 205
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Rep Power: 6
 
Re: Catalina 42 ... Why not?

See....fresh new ideas with every rehash ;-)
malyea is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1994 Catalina 320 vs 1992 Catalina 36 ChuckBuck Boat Review and Purchase Forum 8 01-10-2012 09:42 AM
Difference between an '88 Catalina 30 and a Catalina 30 MkII? dennismenace111 Catalina 0 04-07-2011 01:42 PM
Catalina 30 Keel cracks (not Catalina Smile) Pelham Catalina 5 12-01-2009 10:39 AM
catalina 34 Mark II or catalina 350 casey1004 Boat Review and Purchase Forum 11 06-13-2003 04:39 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome