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  #21  
Old 03-06-2013
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Re: Norfolk, VA to Boston delivery

Sounds like a fun trip. Cape May is a great place to stop. I second the recommendation of Lucky Bones and Utsches, although I am not sure you can get in there with your draft.
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  #22  
Old 03-06-2013
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Re: Norfolk, VA to Boston delivery

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
There is no law saying that you must go out all the way to Greenland. Who is minding my business.
I didn't suggest going to Greenland. I go outside Cape Cod just like I go outside Cape Hatteras. Watch the weather and have contingency plans. Generally out is faster and safer. Less to run into. YMMV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
Yes, my bad. I don't know why I typed kn/h. I actually paused, but somehow I forgot to come back to proofread it. I am sure everyone know what it meant. I didn't expect someone will ever care. Have you ever made mistake you or misspoken?
I make mistakes all the time. I try to make new and creative mistakes that others and I can learn from. Units ARE important. A slip is one thing. Lack of caring demonstrates a lack of understanding. Part of the function of this board is to share information and knowledge. Consider yourself shared with. Units are important.

Example - if you have a calculation to do and carry the units through properly and the units don't come out as you expect you KNOW there is a fundamental problem in your approach. Get used to carrying units and you'll avoid silly mistakes.

Which returns us to the opportunity for making new and creative mistakes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fallard View Post
With a new boat, you might want the Chesapeake for a proper shakedown, as someone else mentioned. Annapolis is a good place to look for repair parts. I got a new belt for my AP there.
Point well taken, which gets back to my questions about the state of the boat.

I'm an SSCA Cruising Station in Annapolis. If the OP chooses to come up the Chesapeake and needs some help in Annapolis I'm happy to pitch in. I can also walk him through the timing for a current boost through the C&D and down Delaware Bay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fallard View Post
Going outside Cape Cod instead of the Canal? SVAuspicious can't be serious. You do need Eldridge's to work the currents. from Block Island until you get past the Cape Cod Canal.
Quite serious. From Norfolk, weather permitting, the angles are good. If you can't get weather info aboard I agree that coastal hopping makes sense. If you want to explore and enjoy yourself, hop up the coast. If you want to move the boat get offshore and move the boat. That's what people pay me for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
You had a hard time in Barnegat Inlet and the anchorage ( Meyers Hole 1 and 2). Thats where we usually anchor, It is just past the channel leading back into Barnegat Bay on the starboard after transiting the back of the inlet.
Barnegat Inlet is fine - pretty easy. There is a hump getting into Barnegat Bay. I was going to Forked River. Once in the Bay I was okay until I got into the River. I haven't stopped at the marinas or anchorages right inside the inlet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
I don't know, Dave - someone comes here asking "how long is the trip?", and "where are some good places to stop?", and sounding like they may never have done an overnight passage before, well... I'm not sure I'd be too comfortable sending them out and around Nantucket Shoals, and outside the Cape... (grin)
Point taken. I try to put myself in the shoes of the person asking the question. In this case I lost track. From Norfolk I'd go offshore and around though, again weather permitting. That's why I carry wefax gear on deliveries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
You may be right, I thought the First 38 was also offered in a shoal draft closer to 5.5', but who knows what he's bought?
I think you're right. Most of the First boats were bought for club racing and the deep draft versions are all over the place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Where did you have your problem, exactly?
The hump between the channel and the Bay proper. I got really hung up and called Towboat/US. Note to wannabe delivery skippers - you do know you need a separate towing policy right? Your personal policy isn't valid if you are doing a delivery, and the owners policy isn't good if he isn't aboard. Make sure Boat/US gets your delivery policy hooked to your personal policy so you get credit for your West Marine purchases. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming. *grin*

Anyway the local tower came out and pulled us through. Passport 40 drawing 5-1/2 feet. Called us on the radio and told us not to drop the towline as there were two more humps. He was right. Dragged us through half a foot of mud in each case. I don't recall exact state of tide but it was clear that waiting around wasn't going to help much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
My recommendation is based somewhat on the assumption that he'd likely stop in Cape May, and from there AC is a pretty short day, and Manasquan a pretty long one, so... You're right, if he's just making a pit stop for fuel, then Manasquan is probably preferable, certainly a quicker in and out...
That was my thinking. I don't remember the air draft on a First 38 but if he doesn't fit under the bridge at Cape May then Cape May doesn't make any sense for the Chesapeake/Delaware route. I would either stop at Cape Henlopen for rest or if fuel is an issue push on to Atlantic City. AC is a good all-weather entrance and easy even in darkness. You can find my anchorage guidance on ActiveCaptain. *grin*

Your points, Jon, on experience of the OP are well taken. I care more about weather and tidal current in inlets than darkness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TQA View Post
If you do decide to go outside and it gets snotty remember deep water is your friend.
When in doubt, go out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TQA View Post
I would be VERY reluctant to run an unfamiliar inlet. If you feel you HAVE TO then there is no shame in asking for someone to pilot you in. I remember well having to enter at Cape Fear and although it was buoyed and one of the easier inlets I was VERY glad that I called up a passing shrimper and he slowed down to let me follow him in.
Another good reason for having Towboat/US towing insurance. When you get to an inlet you are nearly always in cell range. The Towboat/US dispatch desk will patch you through to the local tower for local information. Really good deal.
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Last edited by SVAuspicious; 03-06-2013 at 10:42 AM.
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  #23  
Old 03-06-2013
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Re: Norfolk, VA to Boston delivery

There is a true wealth of information here from experienced sailors and even from professional delivery captains, who like professionals from almost every other field of endeavor, do not agree on all points all the time.

To the OP, post a "Crew Wanted" listing, there are many here who would be happy to help you out.
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  #24  
Old 03-06-2013
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Re: Norfolk, VA to Boston delivery

Hiring a good delivery skipper to go with you and give you the benefit of his knowledge might be the way to go. I can't do it as I'm booked, so I'm not angling for a job, just dispensing free advice.
Philosophically, you need to remember that your boat is small and the sea is big. Go at this very humbly, I notice a bit of the kind of arrogance that gets people in trouble in some of the comments on routes.
The weather still can get very snotty very quickly that time of year, and the water is still very cold. So watch the weather, don't be in a hurry, and be prepared and make sure your crew is prepared to sit at the dock and wait for better weather.
If you want the more direct route, pick a nice SWly to leave on; one that is going to last a couple of days, at least, and head up toward C May or Atlantic City.
Don't try Barnegat; it's tricky and it's not worth the risk. Out of many dozens of trips up and down the NJ shore, I've only gone in there when I was dropping a boat there. It's only 53 miles from Atlantic City to Manasquan; you should be able to pick a weather window that long.
As for going up the Chesapeake, it adds only 50 miles to the trip, and it's a good way to shake down the boat and the crew.
Before you leave, learn what lights mean, both ship and shore.
Winds are generally westerly that time of year, so going up the beach is a good option. If you stay in 40 feet or so, you should have a nice flat-water ride no matter how hard the wind is blowing. Careful of the reefs going up the DelMarVa shore. Bear in mind that if the forecast is for NW winds, you will have wind and waves right on your nose and get no lee from the land.
Again, in many years of taking this route, 75% of the time I end up going up the beach and down LI Sound. The offshore route can be a pain weather-wise, but also the traffic is horrendous with ships and fishing boats all trying to run you over...or so it seems. Mid May is pretty foggy offshore, so you can imagine how much fun that will be, no matter how overloaded with electronics you are. My advice is to not take the chance. And going through NYC is enthralling and adds little to the mileage.

For a brief take on how to find a delivery skipper:
Yacht and Delivery Captains: A Wealth of Knowledge and Experience « « www.yachtworld.com www.yachtworld.com
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  #25  
Old 03-06-2013
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Re: Norfolk, VA to Boston delivery

Dave,

I have " hit" that hump rpobably a few years back when we went to Silver Cloud Marina to have our exhaust mixer fixed back in Forked River. That passageway back to Barnegat Bay along the Sedge Islands is a narrow twisted mess. even worse in season with the large PB racing through there.

Is your anchorage at AC the one next to the bulkhead before the bridge or the one opposite Clam Creek ( the entrance for the Farley. Kammermans marinas), That one was blocked a good part of the year by a dredge and its pipes last summer. Have you been back there since Setember 1 yet?
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  #26  
Old 03-06-2013
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Re: Norfolk, VA to Boston delivery

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Burton View Post
Well-written article. I would add one more way to find a delivery captain, which is to participate in a forum like SailNet or Sailing Anarchy, where you can read the delivery captain's history of posts and determine for yourself whether the captain is the kind of person to whom you would entrust your boat and your life.

There are some great delivery captain participants on SailNet who have added a great deal of knowledge to the discussions here and have proven their expertise in the field through their smartly written posts.
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  #27  
Old 03-06-2013
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Re: Norfolk, VA to Boston delivery

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
There is a true wealth of information here from experienced sailors and even from professional delivery captains, who like professionals from almost every other field of endeavor, do not agree on all points all the time.
I think you'll find that where we differ it is based on different assumptions. When we talk things over consensus is reached pretty easily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Burton View Post
... So watch the weather, don't be in a hurry, and be prepared and make sure your crew is prepared to sit at the dock and wait for better weather. ...

... As for going up the Chesapeake, it adds only 50 miles to the trip, and it's a good way to shake down the boat and the crew. ...

... And going through NYC is enthralling and adds little to the mileage. ...
Weather is important. You really need a way to get weather information on the boat underway. The NOAA VHF material is way too local to plan with. Synoptics are the way to go which realistically means weather fax unless you have Internet.

If you have any doubts about your crew than I agree that heading up the Chesapeake makes sense, mostly because you can drop them in Annapolis or Baltimore and they have lots of public transportation options: BWI and Amtrak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Is your anchorage at AC the one next to the bulkhead before the bridge or the one opposite Clam Creek ( the entrance for the Farley. Kammermans marinas), That one was blocked a good part of the year by a dredge and its pipes last summer. Have you been back there since Setember 1 yet?
39d 22.93'N 074d 25.28'W I haven't been there since July '12. I don't remember the dredge but I went into the state marina to drop off sick crew and left. I know I've anchored in there since my post in '10 but I don't recall how recently.
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  #28  
Old 03-06-2013
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Re: Norfolk, VA to Boston delivery

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Originally Posted by SVAuspicious View Post

Barnegat Inlet is fine - pretty easy. There is a hump getting into Barnegat Bay. I was going to Forked River. Once in the Bay I was okay until I got into the River. I haven't stopped at the marinas or anchorages right inside the inlet.
There is more than one "hump', the Oyster Creek Channel into the bay can be a real challenge in a few places... but there would be no reason for anyone stopping for an overnight in Barnegat to venture in there, and simply coming inside the inlet to the anchorage in Meyer's Hole should be no problem, even for one who has the deep keeled version of the First 38...

Barnegat has always had a fearsome reputation, but I think it is one of the few inlets on the east coast that appears to be improving with the passage of time. It's become quite stable in recent years, the addition of the South Jetty years ago is one of those projects that the Corps of Engineers really seemed to get right... Of course it will quickly turn treacherous on the ebb with a good swell running, but otherwise it has become pretty straightforward...

I know I'm somewhat prejudiced, it being in my backyard and a favorite local destination and all, but I think Barnegat Light is a very special place... This pic happened to be taken exactly one week before the night Sandy came ashore there...

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Last edited by JonEisberg; 03-06-2013 at 11:35 PM.
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Old 03-07-2013
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Re: Norfolk, VA to Boston delivery

Having gone in And out of Barnegat over 75 times I would say it is to be respected. Not as easy as Cape May , Absecon, or Manesquan, but for me is the only other inlet I would try on the NJ coast. Having lived there for 18 years helps , and as John has stated the South Jetty definitely improved it. As long as you understand it, know you will face a green can in the middle of the rocks forcing you to the north jetty, and dogleg perpendicular across the back of the inlet it's really not difficult. Care should be given in outbound tide and wind from the NE or E.

It is the perfect midway point between Cape May and Sandy Hook to do the Jersey coast in two days. Manesquan, while a great Inet precludes anchoring. You need to get a slip there.

Johns anchorage picture is a pretty one. There s even an anchorage a little further on Meyers Hole two toward High Br Yacht Club.
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Old 03-07-2013
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Re: Norfolk, VA to Boston delivery

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
There is more than one "hump', the Oyster Creek Channel into the bay can be a real challenge in a few places... but there would be no reason for anyone stopping for an overnight in Barnegat to venture in there, and simply coming inside the inlet to the anchorage in Meyer's Hole should be no problem, even for one who has the deep keeled version of the First 38...
As I said elsewhere the Inlet was fine and easy. The only time I've been in there was to deliver a boat to Forked River, so I haven't explored the anchorages just past the light.

Aside from the three humps to get into the Bay proper we ended up having to put lines ashore and grind ourselves into the boat's home slip. The wind was in a bad direction and blown all the water out. Fun stuff.

It comes down to philosophy. I plan to move the boat and plan bail-outs. I don't take the bail-outs unless conditions (weather, boat, crew) dictate.
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