mainsail roach and size of genny - Page 2 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree7Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 03-08-2013
RichH's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,795
Thanks: 9
Thanked 68 Times in 61 Posts
Rep Power: 15
RichH will become famous soon enough
Re: mainsail roach and size of genny

Some Thoughts.

An extended roach with full or long battens will cause several problems for long distance cruising.

1. chafe and wear at the batten pockets and leech abrasion .... and since the leech is the most vulnerable for ripping/splitting, you really should consider chafe patches at all the contact points with the backstay. Chafe is the absolute bane of the long distance sailor.

2. With an extended roach you will have problems in light winds, especially with the batten system is set up with full batten compression to keep full 'powered-up' sail shape for ocean sailing. You will possibly have to 'pop' the mainsail when trying to tack in light conditions ... the sail being restrained by the backstay will have the propensity to not 'invert' its shape between tacks and you may have to manually 'punch' the sail for it to change shape for the next tack - too much overlap of the backstay will certainly have to be discussed with the sailmaker to prevent the sail from 'locking' into a portside shape when tacking over onto starboard, etc. when sailing in light winds. The only way to do this with a fixed backstay is to run low batten compression in their pockets .. and that will lead to a FLAT shape overall and not good for sailing in light winds with 'left over slop' and swells where you need a power / full drafted shape.

I think what Dashew is advocating is a simple UHMWPE split sleeve attached up high on the backstay in the area of the roach interference to provide 'lubricity' to the backstay ... just a snap-on 'shroud cover'.
If you have a SSB antenna as integral with the backstay (w/insulatiors), how will you provide the 'lubricity' across the prominent insulators? A folded dipole, slip-on, backstay SSB/HAM antenna system (eg. GAM antenna, etc.) which is constructed of UHMWPE could provide the 'slippery-ness' for such needs, but the GAM, etc. antenna would tend to 'rotate' each time the roach is pressed to the backstay.

Since you will not have a dynamic backstay system (bendy mast and rapidly loosened backstay) a backstay whip will be useless, unless you dont mind constantly loosening/tightening the backstay at each time you gybe/tack in light winds.

I think youd be best served by a sailmaker who has actual extensive long distance blue water experience rather than an around-the-buoys type - a vastly different world. If passagemaking is your goal, you'll probably be reaching or running most of the time, so a large roached main on a mast headed boat is not all that important ... just put up a larger jib/genoa. When beating is required, to avoid storm centers, and 'stink', etc., you'll probably be reefed anyway.

Also - FWIW.
Vektron is (was) subject to rapid UV damage, at least it was 10 years ago when I tested it, although I believe it now has an integral UV protective scrim. For the mainsail, certainly a robust woven dacron (Bainbridge or Challenge, etc.) will withstand constant folding and 'reefing', and the all important leech can be reinforced (triple stitched, seams additionally glued, and reinforcement patches placed at all leech intersection seams). With a dacron main you can easily also add an 'over the top' leech control line with which you can control leech tension from the base of the mast or even back to the cockpit .... instead of hanging over blue water (one hand on the boom, one hand doing the adjustments, one foot on the rail and one foot dangling in space) to adjust leech tension - a safety concern for deep water sailing.

With respect to the mainsail, 'good' dacron is more robust, and is more 'adjustable' to meet varying wind conditions, and can take a better 'beating' than any of the laminates; doesnt require 'precise folding'/rolling, etc. and can take more abuse when reefing (think of the clew lines that tighten around the 'bunt' when deep reefed - chafe!!!).
Sure, laminates and extended roaches will give better performance, but do you really need several more inches per mile when passagemaking, and when most sailing is (or should be) reaching? .... especially when sailing in the trade winds.

Just my opinions. ;-)
Faster likes this.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #12  
Old 03-08-2013
fallard's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mystic
Posts: 903
Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Rep Power: 5
fallard is on a distinguished road
Re: mainsail roach and size of genny

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabreman View Post
Yes.

When we had our mainsail built by Evolution two years ago, I specifically requested as full a roach as possible. The Chesapeake is notorious for light air and the sailmaker recommended a 2.5" overlap with a 2+2 batten configuration.
My main has full length battens, allowing for as much roach as our fixed backstay will allow. We did not go for overlap. We have removable, running backstays, which were installed for the offshore segment of my delivery trip home but haven't been used since, as they are a real nuisance if you don't need them.

Full length battens need to be implemented correctly. We learned this the hard way with a North main we ordered in 2000, requiring warranty repairs when 2 battens exited in a high wind event. I ordered a new main from Evolution last year because of a positive experience with an Evolution genny we bought 3 years ago to replace a North molded genny that didn't age well.

I downsized my genny from my original 150 to about 135, opting to favor performance in higher winds over that in light winds. We had downsized when we went to the North molded sail, too, and it appears we didn't give up anything when we went back to a crosscut dacron sail with the Evolution genny.

Our Clearwater 35 has been in the family for 17 years now and we're quite comfortable with a full roach, full-batten dacron main and a crosscut 135 dacron genny. We are coastal cruisers and have experienced a wide range of conditions over the years and are more concerned with comfort and safety than racing performance. We don't race any more, unless we are on the same tack as another sailboat, so we do care that the sails are "right".
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #13  
Old 03-08-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: new england
Posts: 1,651
Thanks: 31
Thanked 28 Times in 25 Posts
Rep Power: 2
outbound is on a distinguished road
Re: mainsail roach and size of genny

Great input all-
Called Robin ( Hood in Ca) and went with
Vektron- Reassured UV issue has been lessened. Should get 12+yrs.
Non overlapping main with full battens.Did everything possible to decrease friction as have single line reefing.
140 genny in 6oz. Will use solent in any kind of wind and genny on traditional roller furling seems more bulletproof than using top down continuous line. So Genny becomes the sail once wind gets near the beam. Don't put the pole out unless the leg is long enough so not worried about in and out to gybe. Use solent if tacking. Add light air reach/run sail later if and when I have the money and see the need.
Will only know if best decision after a few years. If obviously wrong will share so others do better.
RichH and Faster like this.
__________________
s/v Hippocampus
Outbound 46
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #14  
Old 03-08-2013
RichH's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,795
Thanks: 9
Thanked 68 Times in 61 Posts
Rep Power: 15
RichH will become famous soon enough
Re: mainsail roach and size of genny

If single line reefing and interested in lessening friction .... have your considered Goļot Rutgerson cringle blocks already mounted INSIDE the reefing cringles?

http://www.goiot.com/pdf/p48a.pdf
Faster likes this.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #15  
Old 03-08-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: new england
Posts: 1,651
Thanks: 31
Thanked 28 Times in 25 Posts
Rep Power: 2
outbound is on a distinguished road
Re: mainsail roach and size of genny

Looks like a great piece of kit RichH. Left the orginal holes for traditional slab reefing and added very low friction blocks attached to sail by short piece of webbing for the reef lines. That way very low friction set up. Also allows a little extra room for non deployed part of the reefed sail and redundancy so I can tie in a reef if any part of the reefing system fails. Have hooks for tacks on gooseneck. Will cover them with a piece of flexible plastic pipe (Water pipe or the like) run under the boom so there is no chance they will catch the sail and rip it.
__________________
s/v Hippocampus
Outbound 46
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #16  
Old 03-08-2013
RichH's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,795
Thanks: 9
Thanked 68 Times in 61 Posts
Rep Power: 15
RichH will become famous soon enough
Re: mainsail roach and size of genny

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Will only know if best decision after a few years. If obviously wrong will share so others do better.
Ha! I just noticed your boat name ... and if you keep your hippocampus healthy, Im sure you'll have no problem finding all the needed 'shortcuts' to make those decisions. LOL.
outbound likes this.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Can someone explain roach to me? MedSailor General Discussion (sailing related) 21 01-30-2013 02:47 AM
Changing to square top high roach mainsail cousineddy Gear & Maintenance 26 11-29-2011 06:12 PM
Extra large roach mainsail klubko Gear & Maintenance 32 11-14-2010 07:24 AM
mainsail roach, battens, weather helm, and mast placement stipakb Sailboat Design and Construction 10 09-08-2008 06:30 PM
Roach or not mainemandean Gear & Maintenance 26 01-05-2007 01:19 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:13 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.