Professional Liability Insurance for delivery or hiring crews - Page 2 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree19Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #11  
Old 03-11-2013
Andrew Burton's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Newport, RI
Posts: 75
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Andrew Burton is on a distinguished road
Re: Professional Liability Insurance for delivery or hiring crews

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
dawg, at the risk of promoting risky behavior...One might consider forming a limited liability company (LLC) and having the company contract for the delivery. I think that would allow their employee to be shielded from individual suits other than gross negligence.

Form corporation, hire freelance skippers, keep a percent...money to be made here? Move over Avon lady?
That's been tried several times. The only one I heard of who made it work was Patrick Ellam back in the 70s when the bareboat companies were getting their boats from FL.
Actually, I take that back. I think there's an outfit in the UK doing that; they may have gone under after losing a couple of boats. And I think there's a guy working for R&C in SA doing it. I understand they don't pay well enough to get really experienced people, but they may be a place to start.
__________________
Peregrine
C&C 40

Last edited by Andrew Burton; 03-11-2013 at 03:49 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #12  
Old 03-11-2013
hellosailor's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,802
Thanks: 2
Thanked 97 Times in 94 Posts
Rep Power: 10
hellosailor has a spectacular aura about hellosailor has a spectacular aura about
Re: Professional Liability Insurance for delivery or hiring crews

Andrew, dawg's question asked about delivery skippes protecting themselves, i.e. liability insurance. That is totally unaffected by whatever insurance the boat owner has, because even if the boat owner is fully insured? The insurance company will then proceed to sue the delivery skipper to get back everything they paid the owner.

That's the way it works. The only thing that will protect your assets, if you are the delivery captain, is professional liability insurance. Personally liability or umbrella coverage could exclude any business related activities, so you'd have to check for policy exclusions. And of course, it wouldn't necessarily be a business expense either.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #13  
Old 03-11-2013
Andrew Burton's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Newport, RI
Posts: 75
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Andrew Burton is on a distinguished road
Re: Professional Liability Insurance for delivery or hiring crews

I guess I'm just very careful not to screw up...as you might have guessed reading some of my other advice about heading offshore.
__________________
Peregrine
C&C 40
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #14  
Old 03-11-2013
Silvio's Avatar
Battered and Bruised
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 488
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 5
Silvio is on a distinguished road
Re: Professional Liability Insurance for delivery or hiring crews

Andrew,
You are certainly entitled to your rant. Different folks have different approaches. I agree that there is a philosophical difference among sailors and many of us on Sailnet.

I am not a captain, delivery or otherwise. I do however own a business. My general liability insurance doesn't protect me so much as it protects my wife and children. It protects my family from losing our assets. I see it as necessary for being a professional in business where certain risks are mine to assume in return for which I am able to charge a fair market rate for my services. I doubt you will find many professionals such as doctors, engineers, attorneys, etc. practicing their profession without liability insurance. I don't see why a professional delivery captain would want to operate differently. I can think of thousands of reasons why insurance is a good idea for professionals but only the cost can I see as a negative. My $1M policy is almost a negligible operating expense. And as a business I count insurance as an operating expense that comes off the top before taxes.

It is my understanding that you can refuse to leave your vessel even if the USCG orders you off. I don't believe that you will be able to enjoy the benefits of having a captains license if you do though.

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't carry insurance to protect others, I carry it to protect me and my loved ones.

To each our own I guess.
__________________
SV S.S.R.I
It's my happy pill
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #15  
Old 03-11-2013
Andrew Burton's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Newport, RI
Posts: 75
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Andrew Burton is on a distinguished road
Re: Professional Liability Insurance for delivery or hiring crews

As you say, Silvio; different approaches to life. I prefer to accept responsibility for what I do. And I suspect I don't have much in the way of assets that an insurance company would see profit in going after. Surprisingly enough, delivering boats hasn't made me rich!
Silvio likes this.
__________________
Peregrine
C&C 40
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #16  
Old 03-11-2013
Silvio's Avatar
Battered and Bruised
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 488
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 5
Silvio is on a distinguished road
Re: Professional Liability Insurance for delivery or hiring crews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Burton View Post
As you say, Silvio; different approaches to life. I prefer to accept responsibility for what I do. And I suspect I don't have much in the way of assets that an insurance company would see profit in going after. Surprisingly enough, delivering boats hasn't made me rich!
Well crap,
There goes my second career plans.
__________________
SV S.S.R.I
It's my happy pill
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #17  
Old 03-11-2013
美国华人, 帆船 教授及输送
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MD
Posts: 2,499
Thanks: 23
Thanked 23 Times in 15 Posts
Rep Power: 9
rockDAWG is on a distinguished road
Re: Professional Liability Insurance for delivery or hiring crews

The reason i posted the questions is to learn how to minimize my exposure to ludicrous lawsuit. If I ask my lawyer, he will say:

1. I don't want you to delivery for any boat for anyone with or without compensation.
2. I don't want you to crew for others
3. I don't wan to hire any crews unless you are in a LLC

If you don't follow my advise, I will double my fee when I need to defend you. In this type of scenario, even you win, you lose big time. Obviously, there is no way that I can follow his recommendation. They are absurd. But the liability is real.

If you have two crews, you tell them tethered at all time at night and never go out on deck. You come up to the deck at night, he is missing. His family lawyer does some homework on your net worth. And decide to take legal action.

Many of us are not like that. But the exposure is there. This will suck all the fun out of sailing.

Therefore if there is a professional liability in place, I would be more comfortable. Architect, engineer, Physician, Nurse, pharmacist and etc have liability for their practices. Captains and owners should have it too if you want.

I am just sayin'
Silvio likes this.
__________________

Fine Print:
I am old school. Integrity is to do the right thing even when no one is watching.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #18  
Old 03-11-2013
Silvio's Avatar
Battered and Bruised
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 488
Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 5
Silvio is on a distinguished road
Re: Professional Liability Insurance for delivery or hiring crews

Rockdawg,
I just realized that I started a thread very similar to yours. Sorry, I was trying to avoid hijacking your thread and may have inadvertently duplicated your original thought.
__________________
SV S.S.R.I
It's my happy pill
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #19  
Old 03-11-2013
美国华人, 帆船 教授及输送
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MD
Posts: 2,499
Thanks: 23
Thanked 23 Times in 15 Posts
Rep Power: 9
rockDAWG is on a distinguished road
Re: Professional Liability Insurance for delivery or hiring crews

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvio View Post
Rockdawg,
I just realized that I started a thread very similar to yours. Sorry, I was trying to avoid hijacking your thread and may have inadvertently duplicated your original thought.
No problem. I think more people rise the concerns and understand our risk is better. Besides, my post is probably full of grammatical errors. If my proofreader at the office sees this. She will have all red ink over it.

I sucks in English and Poetry. hahaha.
Silvio likes this.
__________________

Fine Print:
I am old school. Integrity is to do the right thing even when no one is watching.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #20  
Old 03-11-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 9,340
Thanks: 10
Thanked 154 Times in 140 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Minnewaska will become famous soon enough Minnewaska will become famous soon enough
Re: Professional Liability Insurance for delivery or hiring crews

Forming an LLC that is the contracting party, which you own and work for, will do absolutely nothing to reduce your liability. You are still responsible as Captain.

A great point was made above about the owner's insurance trying to subrogate their loss against you, if you were the cause. You may want to ask for a waiver of subrogation from the insurance company. The owner can buy that feature, which limits the insurance company's options and, therefore, costs a bit more.

I got a real chuckle thinking of this. The delivery Captain that I use for any passage of significance is way more experienced than I. Multiple trips per year, back and forth from the Caribbean. The insurance company should lower my rate, when he has the boat!!
SVAuspicious, chef2sail and Silvio like this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mexico Liability Insurance andantesail Pacific Seacraft 0 03-22-2010 10:41 AM
Hiring Delivery Captain North Carolina to VA jobrantley Boat Review and Purchase Forum 4 08-13-2007 09:45 AM
Liability only insurance Cheap corvettekid General Discussion (sailing related) 3 03-04-2007 12:28 PM
Liability insurance davejean General Discussion (sailing related) 1 06-28-2001 05:40 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:40 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.