Salt Water in the Cylinders - SailNet Community
 1Likes
  • 1 Post By christyleigh
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 7 Old 03-11-2013 Thread Starter
Master Mariner
 
capta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: somewhere in the Windward or Leeward Islands
Posts: 2,242
Thanks: 34
Thanked 110 Times in 105 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Salt Water in the Cylinders

Twice now we have gone to start the Perkins 4.236 and it has had salt water (I tasted it) in the cylinders. The 1st time we took off the riser (exhaust elbow) and found no problems, so we just cleaned things up a bit and reassembled everything. Not finding a problem, we had not fixed anything, so we hoped it was a boat gremlin.
It started and ran fine for a few days then water again; no surprise.
This time we took off the exhaust manifold as well and pressure tested it to 30 pounds and it was fine. Because of its design, the riser could not be pressure tested so we took it to the local ship yard and they cut it open and again, found no problems at all.
Our overboard engine exhaust is well out of the water and we were actually only re-anchoring so we ran the engine just a few minutes the day before the second time. There is one of those black aqua-lift silencers in the exhaust line, near the transmission. The fresh water is fine, no leaks or water missing or bubbling in the header tank when running. No steam out the exhaust, nor smoke, white or black. There is no water in the oil nor in the transmission, so neither of those coolers could be at fault. Engine does not overheat, nor run particularly cold (about 170). Salt water goes through the sea strainer, then the pump, into the exhaust manifold, then into the heat exchanger and finally into the riser and into the exhaust. No where else does salt water get near the engine block or cylinders. This is not a new installation; it's been working fine for years.
Obviously, this is a really big deal as we will never know if the engine will start.
I am at a complete loss. I cannot think of anywhere else salt water could possibly enter the cylinders.

Last edited by capta; 03-11-2013 at 01:18 AM.
capta is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 7 Old 03-11-2013
Senior Member
 
celenoglu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 672
Thanks: 0
Thanked 14 Times in 13 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: Salt Water in the Cylinders

Check the exhaust manifold. It might be cracked.
celenoglu is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #3 of 7 Old 03-11-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 11,226
Thanks: 46
Thanked 237 Times in 222 Posts
Rep Power: 7
   
Re: Salt Water in the Cylinders

When and how do you find the sea water in the cylinders? Before startup, after shut down and how do you get in there to know? I assume its just trace amounts, as a hydro lock would have blown your cylinder head off by now.

Is something causing backpressure in your exhaust that could be pushing sea water back from the mixing elbow through the manifold and past the valves?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Minnewaska is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #4 of 7 Old 03-11-2013
Senior Member
 
tommays's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,296
Thanks: 1
Thanked 30 Times in 30 Posts
Rep Power: 7
 
Re: Salt Water in the Cylinders



There are various minimums and the anti siphon can be very important

1970 Cal 29 Sea Fever

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

1981 J24 Tangent 2930
Tommays
Northport NY


If a dirty bottom slows you down what do you think it does to your boat
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
tommays is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #5 of 7 Old 03-11-2013
Senior Member
 
christyleigh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: North Brookfield, Mass.
Posts: 935
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 14
 
Re: Salt Water in the Cylinders

A few years ago the "Siphon Break" vent to the outside in the above picture was clogged by a Mud Dauber Wasps nest. I only sail on weekends. The result was - Sometime during the week they made their nest. I went sailing the next weekend and everything worked fine, but when I shut the engine down I didn't realize that the hot engine Sucked exhaust cooling water as it cooled down into the cylinders. So..... the next weekend I tried to start but I was Hydrolocked, no turnover. A mechanic pulled the injectors, turned over the engine and sprayed out the water. The Oil Was Fine - No Water In It. Fired up the engine and all was well.
BUT...... if I didn't clean out the vent that was clogged the exact same thing would have happened again (I cleaned it out and installed a screen to keep them out).
So...... maybe you have a partial blockage in the vented siphon break ?
SimonV likes this.

Stan
'Christy Leigh'
NC 331
Wickford/Narragansett Bay RI
christyleigh is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #6 of 7 Old 03-11-2013
Senior Member
 
Maine Sail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maine Coast
Posts: 5,887
Thanks: 20
Thanked 222 Times in 169 Posts
Rep Power: 16
       
Re: Salt Water in the Cylinders

If the manifold is fine and the HX is fine then your most likely place is a blocked or clogged or not installed siphon break in the RW circuit.

Below is a picture of a Pearson 530 engine room showing the siphon break. This customer of mine is using one made by Scot Pump Co. and IMHO there is no better or more reliable siphon break made..

Makes sure your siphon break is installed high enough, is working and is close to the CL of the boat..


______
-Maine Sail / CS-36T


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




Images In Posts Property of Compass Marine Inc.


Maine Sail is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #7 of 7 Old 03-18-2013 Thread Starter
Master Mariner
 
capta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: somewhere in the Windward or Leeward Islands
Posts: 2,242
Thanks: 34
Thanked 110 Times in 105 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Salt Water in the Cylinders

Sorry for the delay in updating, but internet has not been nice to us for a few weeks now.
It seems what was right in front of my face was indeed the problem; the siphon break. Usually it makes us aware that it is "ill" by leaking a bit salt down the unit, but this time it was completely frozen with no visual indication. These are Perko units and they use a smaller version of the valves that Par uses in their pumps. In theory a stainless steel and rubber piece that should last forever in a bronze housing? I guess the quality is declining? Replaced and functioning, I'm hoping this was the cause of the problem.
While reassembling the engine, strangely, the fresh water system magically "filled itself"! To the point that without the engine running, it would spurt a cup of water out of the radiator cap when opened. Definitely NOT salt water, this time. Thinking, thinking, thinking.....
Engine heating for the hot water heater was the culprit; there must be a very small hole in the water heater coil. Separated them and finally we may once again have a reliable, functioning engine.
Thanks all.
capta is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Atomic 4 - Water in Cylinders!!! wbgent Gear & Maintenance 27 03-15-2010 10:24 PM
From Salt Water to Fresh Water DennisV Boat Review and Purchase Forum 3 02-16-2009 08:00 PM
Fresh Water Better Than Salt Water? zaldog Boat Review and Purchase Forum 12 04-04-2007 11:07 PM
Fresh water boat to salt water svs3 Boat Review and Purchase Forum 6 12-30-2006 12:41 PM
Fresh/Salt water 73mensailed General Discussion (sailing related) 0 09-24-2002 08:54 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome