Weather helm question - Page 3 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > General Interest > General Discussion (sailing related)
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree6Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #21  
Old 03-17-2013
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: new england
Posts: 1,785
Thanks: 32
Thanked 31 Times in 28 Posts
Rep Power: 2
outbound is on a distinguished road
Re: Weather helm question

Rich ?How would you get out of that mess. ?What would you do in what order.

Appreciate your point about in boom furlers. Always have a flat main when reefed? How do you compensate for no chord in the main that when you want power to cut through chop.
__________________
s/v Hippocampus
Outbound 46

Last edited by outbound; 03-17-2013 at 03:15 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #22  
Old 03-17-2013
SchockT's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: North Vancouver, BC
Posts: 1,425
Thanks: 1
Thanked 27 Times in 25 Posts
Rep Power: 3
SchockT is on a distinguished road
Re: Weather helm question

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichH View Post
Look at the tiller position in that pic .... a wee bit to windward but quite near centerline - balanced helm!!!!! Also, look to see that he's dragging his boom in the water !!!!!
LOL! Well, that doesn't look to me like Lee, weather, or balanced helm. That looks to me like NO helm! That guy got slammed and he is just riding it out! I wouldn't hold that picture out as a good example of sailing well!
smurphny likes this.
__________________
1979 Santana 30 Tall Rig
Hull#101
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #23  
Old 03-17-2013
smurphny's Avatar
Over Hill Sailing Club
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Adirondacks NY
Posts: 2,854
Thanks: 55
Thanked 64 Times in 62 Posts
Rep Power: 6
smurphny is on a distinguished road
Re: Weather helm question

Quote:
Originally Posted by jobberone View Post
LOL. Well I've not done that yet but I've come to understand why you jib slowly. :O

We're looking at purchasing a 38-40 foot cat vs a 40-44 foot monohull. I'm leaning towards the latter and looking at some IPs. I like the livability of the cat and the sailing of the mono.

We did discover the Admiral does not get seasick easily and she loves to sail. In fact she is probably going to be a better sailor than I am. So I have a partner. She also happens to be the greatest wife a man could ask for.
Has to be about 25 years ago now. I took 2 of my cousins out in the Lightning I had at that time. The wind picked up and was puffing 35 knot gusts by the time we were headed back in. I got a little too close on the run back in and wham. Luckily everyone had their heads down. The boom became detached and flailed around wildly until I could get the sail down. My passengers were scared S$%^less and for some reason, never sailed with me again....don't know why
__________________
Alberg 35: With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the ship.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
  #24  
Old 03-17-2013
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Caridea is on a distinguished road
Re: Weather helm question

Noob here. I have some limited monohull experience and too much free time.
Nobody seems to bring up weather helm as 3-D problem. When a boat is not heeled there is center of effort fore and aft of the crafts center of lateral effort (jib & main). That's the calculation everybody can figure out and is on the first couple pages of a sailing book. Too much resistance on the jib and the nose points away from the wind, more wind on the mainsail the nose points into the wind. Classic weather vane analogy, once a boat is moving that formula is less worthy. Why is the boat moving forward in the first place?

Think pinwheel or maple seed. You blow on a pinwheel and the “sails” rotate around a fixed point. If you took a pinwheel and removed all but one blade you would have a sailboat that spins around a fixed point, a maple leaf.

Underneath each boat somewhere around the keel is the center of gravity, maybe called something else. This is the fixed point that if you could mount an axel through (there might not even be boat there, think boomerang) it would spin around like a pinwheel with one blade, spinning faster as the wind picked up.

Upright boats don't spin around this point in water because the buoyancy of water in front of center of gravity (the bow half or forward section) prevents the bow from going under and the keel also keeps the boat from flipping end over. Actually modeled this keel-sail system with no hull. The wind energy spent trying to spin the boat is given up in heel, slide, and finally, forward motion. Does your boat seem to want to submarine more often at higher speeds?

When a boat is moving it is due to wind, more wind then boat heels. If a boat’s sail rig is trimmed for max lifting efficiency then as the boat heels it is continuing to generate forward spin. Heel the boat a full 80 degrees or so the craft is almost on its side. The sail still has some lifting force and resistance. If the sail is balanced according to the books, it will neither have weather or lee helm, if the sail rig is trimmed poorly, the craft will just sit there at 80 degrees and slowdown, stalled sails, resisting wind, sliding. If the sails are still lifting, then forward rotation continues, only, the center of gravity of the boat is no longer under the sails, but STILL on the opposite side of the sails by the keel, maybe even close to breaking surface of the water. The boat WANTS to spin around the center of gravity. The farther the center of gravity is from the sails center of effort, the more spinning it must do. Front half of the craft is no longer being rotated down INTO the water; it is being rotated to the horizon, the source of the wind, the air. Adding to the chaos, the keel no longer dampens the boat rotation port and starboard; in terms of resistance it has become nearly invisible, and is doing very little of its original job of keeping a boat going straight and preventing sideways motion, only trying to bring the mast back to an upright position if it is weighted, or give you a platform to stand on to upright it manually. To make matters worse your rudder has now become an elevator, pointing your bow up out of the water or down into the water.

Every point so violently to weather that you actually end up spinning completely around to your original course?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Weather helm on starboard, lee helm on port donlofland Gear & Maintenance 3 01-17-2012 05:49 PM
Weather-helm EJO Seamanship & Navigation 19 06-06-2011 12:49 PM
Weather Helm vs Lee Helm grantheadifen Learning to Sail 4 06-22-2009 05:23 PM
Weather/Lee Helm DrB General Discussion (sailing related) 3 07-21-2008 12:29 PM
weather helm zif001 Learning to Sail 3 07-30-2001 10:49 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:19 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.