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  #101  
Old 04-08-2013
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Re: Lets choose SmackDaddy's new boat...

I think I know more about the ocean and how to cross it than I do about the production boats. If it floats and can catch a breeze I can get her there. I prefer to do it on something heavy is all.
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  #102  
Old 04-08-2013
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Re: Lets choose SmackDaddy's new boat...

Smack D,

I would have to say that I basically agree with Ron (Faster) that the mid to late 1980's Hunter 40 was a very nice boat. On the internet there is a tendancy to see the court of public opinion routinely trashing Beneteaus, Hunters and Catalinas.

The reality is that these companies have produced a broad range of products and some were much better than others by that same company. Despite all the trash talk, the Hunters of the 1980's were better built than many of their competitors (and even than many higher rep boats like Oday and Pearson) from that era.

The H-40 was an especially nice design. They sailed well and were comparatively well constructed. A surveyor friend of mine was seriously thinking of buying one. I asked him about why a Hunter, and his response was that the Hunters of that era rarely came up with serious problems. I spoke to other surveyors who echoed that opinion.

I personally think that things went down hill at Hunter in the 1990's by which I do not think thier designs were as well rounded and some of thier structural details we questionable in my opinion. During this same period, Beneteau's First Series greatly improved.

My recollection is that the tall rig- deep keel versions of the Hunter 40 had a lead ballast option. This is not a design to clutter up with a cutter rig, but you will want to have a low stretch #3 (105-109%) in your inventory. If I remember right some of these boats had cast iron rudder quadrants which proved a little troublesome, chewing up cables. I personnally do not like centerline aft berths for long distance passage making such as the Gulf jumps you are thinking of making, but you may be able to rig leecloths.

The one that I raced on had larger genoa winches installed, and they were barely up to the job for racing with a 155 in a breeze. The boat did well upwind but had a bit of the masthead chute downwind roll to death roll associated with boats of that era.

Jeff
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  #103  
Old 04-08-2013
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Re: Lets choose SmackDaddy's new boat...

Awesome. That's exactly the kind of info I was looking for Jeff. Thanks.

Just for clarification - are you saying that the '80's era Firsts were not as well-built as the '90's era Firsts?
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S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40

Last edited by smackdaddy; 04-08-2013 at 02:25 PM.
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  #104  
Old 04-08-2013
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Re: Lets choose SmackDaddy's new boat...

I would not quite say that the '80's era Firsts were not as well-built as the '90's era Firsts since each had some 'betters' and 'not as good's about them.

What I would say is that the early to mid- 1980's Firsts were full of idiosyncratic details, many of them did not work all that well. I raced on a couple First 345's and on several 42's.

They were notorious for details which did not make an easy transition from European standards to US standards. They were very hard boats to service, with plumbing and electrical almost totally inaccessible for repair or replacement. I know that the First 42's seem to be held in very high regard these days, and yet one of the two, that I raced on tended to flex very noticably, would jamb its head door and creak terribly when being driven hard up wind.

In the 1990's, the Firsts seemed to employ a more complete and better engineered molded in force grid and seemed to take a big leap forward in build quality and Americanization of their details.

My friend's First 38s7 that I sailed a little, seemed much stiffer and better constructed than the 42 and 35 that I had sailed in earlier years, and the 40.7 seemed like monumentally better boat structurally. Even so, I heard from the owner of a 40.7 that he damaged the forward transverse frames beating at speed into a tall chop, and launching off of waves off Hatteras.

I replaced a head and some of the electrical system on the late 1990's era 38s7 and everything was relatively easier to access. Finish levels were much nicer as well.

As a broad generality the 1980-1990's Beneteau Firsts were more sophisticated designs than the Hunters. The racing versions of the Beneteaus were also slightly better equipped. The problem was that both companies optioned the living daylights out of their boats so you might sail a lead deep draft keel, tall rig version, set up with proper winches and think "Wow, what a great boat!" and then get on some iron keel-short rig version which left you thinking "What the heck were they thinking?". Its in the gap between the base level and the fully loaded versions that you can get the negative verdicts from the court of public opinion.

Jeff
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  #105  
Old 04-08-2013
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Re: Lets choose SmackDaddy's new boat...

Steve,

I have spent time on a Hunter Legend. THe 40.5 is a nice sailing boat and very comfortable. It was as well made (or batter) than most of that era. SHe doesn't point as high as other boats, but she makes up for it on a beam reach or run. I would buy one. Given what we spoke about, I think it would be a great boat to consider for future plans. And as I am very good friends with a very knowledgeable sailor on the 40.5, I could give you at least one insight to someone who owns one, lives on it, and also works on boats for a living. All of that, and he chose a Legend.

I would consider paying a bit more to get one in better condition. Same for the 37.5.

My opinions. Good to see you around.

Brian
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  #106  
Old 04-08-2013
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Re: Lets choose SmackDaddy's new boat...

Thanks CD/Jeff. Great feedback. It's great to be here and talking about boats again (oh, and I'd love to hear from that owner BTW).

I have always loved the Firsts. But, I will admit, within my specs/budget - the biggest downside for every one I've looked at thus far is the stupid headliner. THEY ALL SAG! And it's not cheap fixing them. But...they sail...no doubt.
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S/V Dawn Treader - 1989 Hunter Legend 40
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  #107  
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Re: Lets choose SmackDaddy's new boat...

Smack, you should buy my boat!
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  #108  
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Re: Lets choose SmackDaddy's new boat...

By the way, the boat I was commenting on was the earlier Hunter 40 and not the Hunter 405. The 405 was a later design and one that I am barely familiar with. The deep keel Hunter 40 went to weather very well. The 405 was a fractional rig and generally had less than 5'-0 draft shoal keels with winglets and so might not go to windward very well. They also had rolled out hull to deck joints which are far more vulnerable than the 40's through bolted inward flange.

And I too want to say that I am very glad to see you back on the board and starting to think in a forward direction.

Jeff
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  #109  
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Re: Lets choose SmackDaddy's new boat...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bubb2 View Post
Smack, you should buy my boat!
You do have a pretty sweet Bene bubb. That was a great afternoon of sailing.
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  #110  
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Re: Lets choose SmackDaddy's new boat...

Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Thanks CD/Jeff. Great feedback. It's great to be here and talking about boats again (oh, and I'd love to hear from that owner BTW).

I have always loved the Firsts. But, I will admit, within my specs/budget - the biggest downside for every one I've looked at thus far is the stupid headliner. THEY ALL SAG! And it's not cheap fixing them. But...they sail...no doubt.
Anytime to speak with him. He and I are very, very good friends. Damn knowledgeable sailor too. Been all over he carribean, bahamas, spent 5 years in venezuela, etc.

My issue with the FIrsts is that they aren't fast enough to outrun a solid, high performance race boat so you are going to be running PHRF anyways so get something that does OK, but is comfortable for the family - which is critical if you ever want to look into more distant options as we discussed.

THe fridge and freezer on that boat is big enough to put a few refugees in, the salon is wide and comfortable with nice backroom, the table is large for several people, the aft berth and showers are great and roomy, and the cockpit is nice and well made. THere are two heads which is nice when you get two boys aboard and the nonskid is better than most boats. THis isn't a thin-plastic boat like some Hunter has made. There are a few little building glitches with it, but all boats have them (errhmm, except mine of course!!). I know that boat will run a comfortable 7.5 in 15-20. I have been there when it did it. Course, I was running about 8.2 so (hehe... had to throw that in there). That is a live-aboard boat, btw. BIG DIFFERENCE from a weekender that is light and empty.

Anyways, happy to help.

Brian
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