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  #41  
Old 03-17-2013
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Re: Mostly singlehanded...what lines should I run aft?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichH View Post
The danger of running most/all lines to the cockpit is that you quickly 'get out of practice' in going forward in stink conditions.

Plus, it puts an inordinate amount of crap into the cockpit which to trip over, etc. .... this from someone who has 35 control lines in one of his sportboat cockpits.
I suppose there is something to this, but I just had to go out in 8 footers and it came back without a second thought. I think it was like riding a bicycle, a really wobbly one.

Tripping is another good point, although, tripping on the cabin top ain't fun either.
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  #42  
Old 03-17-2013
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Re: Mostly singlehanded...what lines should I run aft?

I'm another with everything running aft. Can not find a good cabin top photo of the two sides........The one thing I am missing, the self steering mechanism/auto pilot! Other than tying off the tiller which works ok motoring, have not SH'd enogh to make this work as of yet.

Reality is, both options work, but as mentioned, if you can get to things easy, you will adjust, if not.....this may not be good!

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  #43  
Old 03-17-2013
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Re: Mostly singlehanded...what lines should I run aft?

Yeah speaking of tripping hazards, what about all the old school winches around the base of the mast? I'll take a bit of spaghetti in the cockpit over those tripping hazards any day! And using a deck mounted winch at the base of the mast? ouch! My back hurts just thinking about it! I'll stick with the ergonomics of a winch near chest height thankyouverymuch!

As a racer I am a big fan of clean obstacle free decks that allow free movement without worrying about tripping over winches, let alone falling on one!

When we are under sail all of the excess halyards and tails get thrown down the companionway so they aren't an issue. I have sheet bags that snap in on 3 sides of the companionway hatch opening that I can use, although we usually don't bother.
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  #44  
Old 03-17-2013
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Re: Mostly singlehanded...what lines should I run aft?

The issue with where to put the lines frankly is goofy IMHO. Be it they are looped and tied on to the mast base, or loped and tied at the back of the cabin really does not matter if one is off shore for some period of time where one does not want the tons of line on the cabin floor or equal.

I typically do as SchockT, halyards during day sails/cruises are tossed below, or coiled and tied if I know that halyard or equal will be up for awhile. A jib halyard in a race where the Jib and spin halyard will go up and down reasonably quick they go down the hatch. Reef lines are almost always coiled up, unless it appears like we will need them.

There is more than one way to handle the lose line issue. Be them in the back, or at the mast!
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  #45  
Old 03-19-2013
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Re: Mostly singlehanded...what lines should I run aft?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
I don't know, Dave... sounds like maybe only delivery captains believe in keeping everything at the mast, the avoidance of creating openings in the forward panels of dodgers, and the downsides of full cockpit enclosures... (grin)
Perhaps that's it. We're among the few that can do side by side comparisons of large numbers of boats. My relationship with HR allows really apples to apples comparisons. We see the unintended consequences like water through the dodger.

Unfortunately many people have made the decision and borne the expense to follow through and are now committed to the point of view. It's hard to say "I did this thing and it was wrong" particularly if one's spouse is in hearing range. *grin*

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewportNewbie View Post
That's like saying dont get furlers, lazy jacks, instruments, engines, etc because when Columbus did it he didn't have all that. I see guys in the Vendee global or the Volvo Ocean race with all the technology in the world and I would never call them less of a sailor because of it.
Back in the day there were certainly those that didn't think highly of headsail furlers. Those furlers for those old enough to remember where pretty poor and jammed a lot. The world has progressed. Furlers are still not as reliable as hanks but by golly the convenience is worth the maintenance and the occasional repair, including at sea. How many spare sail ties do you have?

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
But that doesn't mean all sailors need be minimalists. There is room on the ocean for everyone.
I'm far from a minimalist. I have aircon and a generator and am not shy about using them when comfort dictates. I love the freezer on my boat. Autopilot is a life safety, mission critical system for me. I don't regret the decision of a full-batten main and halyards at the main AT ALL. It has nothing to do with minimalism. It is about safety and performance.

That doesn't mean I'm not shopping hard for one of the spiffy Anderson electric winches with the motor built into the base of the winch instead of below so I can spare my back (and Janet's elbow) on main and spinnaker hoists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchockT View Post
Yeah speaking of tripping hazards, what about all the old school winches around the base of the mast?
Really? I've never seen a winch on the cabin top at the mast. Mast winches are usually three to four feet up on the mast. They aren't a tripping hazard. They are among other things a handy step up to reach things as well as the lowest friction means we have for halyards and often outhauls and reefing lines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SchockT View Post
When we are under sail all of the excess halyards and tails get thrown down the companionway so they aren't an issue. I have sheet bags that snap in on 3 sides of the companionway hatch opening that I can use, although we usually don't bother.
Sorry -- I don't put wet salty things in the cabin if it can be avoided at all. Yet another reason why lines aft aren't a good idea. Not to mention the tripping hazard for people trying to move in and out of the boat. Okay on a race boat with little to no housekeeping below. Bad idea for cruising.
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  #46  
Old 03-19-2013
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Re: Mostly singlehanded...what lines should I run aft?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
We are about the same age. Once you start acting old, you are old. Once you start acting scared, you are scared.

To me, this is further evidence of the "wimpification" of our culture.

Come on boys and girls, make your way up to the mast, even if you have to crawl on hands and knees, crying all the way...

Every sailor should read K. Adlard Coles "Heavy Weather Sailing" to find out what our courageous predecessors did in the days before push button convenience sailing, GPS, electronics, electronic depth sounders, and weather faxes. Those guys had balls. We are mere shadows of the trailblazing sailors of earlier times.

If you read about the first, solo, nonstop round the world race, you will discover that the race winner, Robin Knox Johnston, eschewed the use of a safety harness, because he felt he was more safe without one. It may him aware of the danger and he had hours and hours of practice walking around the boat in the worst conditions without a harness.

One of my most memorable moments from my racing days as foredeck crew was pulling down a genoa while a Chesapeake Bay cold front came through the fleet during the Solomons Island Invitational Race. Wind was gusting in the 50s and I literally had to lie down on top of the sail to hold it down, no harness, no PFD, clutching the bow pulpit with the boat heeled over, dipping the rail.

That's when you know you are alive!

Now get off your arses and crawl up to the mast, dangit.


I really like slick clean decks as well. SO if you route the lines aft, do it INSIDE, under the deck. IF you have a head liner, this is about the coolest arrangement ever. If you don't have headliner it is still better than the alternative- but...either way, keeping (or trying to keep) the boat dry is *challenging* or perhaps *frustrating* or even *irritating* with this setup.


Anyway- I did 3 months in the bajamas just lately in a boat with only the genoa furler, and sheets and the mainsheet led aft, thats all. I Was singlehanded and spent plenty time out sailing in "bad" weather, you know- windy... and I Was fine. I got knocked down one time (ok, dipped the spreaders), because I didn't reef- because I was "too scared" to go forward and deal with it. After that I went and reefed, as I was too scared not to go forward and reef.

Also- DO NOT lead back a reef line but not the halyard- move one, move them both.
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  #47  
Old 03-19-2013
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Re: Mostly singlehanded...what lines should I run aft?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVAuspicious View Post
Really? I've never seen a winch on the cabin top at the mast. Mast winches are usually three to four feet up on the mast. They aren't a tripping hazard. They are among other things a handy step up to reach things as well as the lowest friction means we have for halyards and often outhauls and reefing lines.

Now you have....



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  #48  
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Re: Mostly singlehanded...what lines should I run aft?

Once again all we can do is speak from our own experiences. In my world having slots in the dodger to allow lines to pass through is very commonplace. Then again in our waters it is not very common to have conditions where waves are hitting the dodger. Remember, we are talking about NewporNewbies boat which is a 30' coastal racer/cruiser, not some big blue water cruiser! Hell, I don't even HAVE a dodger! (Dodgers are for whimps! ) As for wet lines down the companionway, on my boat, and many others I sail on the halyards hang in such a way that they don't contact anything but the sole, which is going to get wet in foul weather anyway. It doesn't take long to wipe up when putting the boat away.True, if I had a fancier boat I might not do it, but as I said before, sheet bags are great for containing excess rope.

As far as coastal cruisers go, I have found that pretty much every modern boat I have looked at has controls and halyards lead aft, dodger or no. Winches on the mast are very uncommon. At least in my experience.
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Re: Mostly singlehanded...what lines should I run aft?

that's a hell of a vang.
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Re: Mostly singlehanded...what lines should I run aft?

I have no Dodger and will not get one for this boat. The previous owner who has sailed for 30+ years, delivered boats all up and down the west coast and who has had 2 Santana 30's and now a Schock 35 said he removed the headliner just before I bought it so he could run the lines aft, as he did on his previous Santana 30 and loved it. I decided to sail it the way it was then figure out what I wanted to do. On Santana 30's reefing is done very rarely, just not that big of a mainsail. So I have never reefed this boat. Never been on deck in bad weather. Well only a few times to clear lines caught on things. Only been out a few times in big wind, and never on deck. So the cockpit is where I sail from. I am mostly a singlehanded, or shorthanded sailor, and for me, the more I can do from the cockpit the better, especially when it comes to raising and lowering sails in harbor. I dont have an autopilot yet, so that will help, but in breezy conditions with current, its sometimes hard to point the boat, go to the deck, lower the sail, then run back and forth. If I can do it all from the cockpit...simple. When sailing, mainsheet, traveler sheets and jib sheets are all in the cockpit, but if I REALLY want to some sail adjusting, its not there. So I thought run the boom vang and cunningham back. That way I can more easily use those to adjust the shape of the main. Up to now its been hoist the main and whatever the shape is, sail with it. I really want to learn to make the boat go better in all conditions that I sail in, and running back and forth to the deck to adjust the vang doesnt seem logical. Same thing for cunningham. So if I am going to do some deck work to move a few things there, shoouldnt I do the main and spinn halyards too? Only sailed one other boat, and new Beneteau First 30 and all lines were in the cockpit. Raising and lowering the main was such a simple operation from the cockpit. So to the people saying keep the lines on deck because its more manly...or because I want to be comfortable on deck so dont move the lines because then I wont go there as often, or because of other reasons listed here...If money were no object, and you were buying a new boat. The lines were lead to the aft, because it seems alot of new boats are made that way now. Would you change it? Would you spend the money to make it the "old school" way for those reasons? Or would you say its easier, and more convenient so I will do it that way because it came that way? I get the whole idea, it came that way so I sail that way and it works for me. I get that, but some guys are pretty opinionated AGAINST lines led aft. I am trying to get to the reasons why. I am primarily a singlehanded sailor, so to me, the cockpit is the safest place on the boat, so staying there as much as possible seems like the safest thing I can do, as long as Im not overpowered and in big wind obviously. In harbor at the tiller seems to be the best place to be with the kind of traffic I deal with normally, so if I can do the stuff I usually do on deck from the cockpit, again to me thats safer.The downsides seem to be too many lines in the companionway when sailing...well I am usually alone...so, not an issue with me. Lines may get wet, and thus get the interior wet? Not an issue for me. More lines to deal with while sailing...thats an isse, but if I have sheet bags, then I dont see a problem because alot of the lines will normally be unused, so tied up, and put away. Losing my comfort level on deck. Ok, well I dont have a huge comfort level now, so maybe thats why I am thinking about this at all...lol...
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