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  #31  
Old 04-17-2013
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re: Dinghy Registration Dilemma - MD

I have a buddy that's a PI, and he couldn't find any records of registration in PA, DE or anything at all in MD on my RIB's HIN. No registration, no BoS, no nuthin'! Like it never existed at all.
Ginning up a BoS is a tad past my comfort level, so until they come up with some sorta amnesty pgm...I'll be rowing!
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  #32  
Old 04-18-2013
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re: Dinghy Registration Dilemma - MD

Sell it to your wife with a notorized bill of sale or have her sell it to you. So long as its hull number doesnt come up stolen , your golden.
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  #33  
Old 04-18-2013
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re: Dinghy Registration Dilemma - MD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Familycruisers View Post
Sell it to your wife with a notorized bill of sale or have her sell it to you. So long as its hull number doesnt come up stolen , your golden.
I saw that when it was posted the first time. IIRC, Dave suggested this idea, but he had not actually done it. It's a cute trick that might have worked on one state somewhere or might have "slipped through the cracks" with a lenient DMV/DNR person. However, when you read through all of Maryland's requirements, it's not sufficient. If your wife sells the vessel to you, it is now a "used boat," which means it needs to have the original title to be registered in Maryland under your name. So to meet this requirement, you need to have your wife title it before selling it, which takes you back to the original problem.
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Last edited by TakeFive; 04-18-2013 at 07:52 AM.
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  #34  
Old 04-18-2013
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Talking re: Dinghy Registration Dilemma - MD

Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
I saw that when it was posted the first time. IIRC, Dave suggested this idea, but he had not actually done it. It's a cute trick that might have worked on one state somewhere or might have "slipped through the cracks" with a lenient DMV/DNR person. However, when you read through all of Maryland's requirements, it's not sufficient. If your wife sells the vessel to you, it is now a "used boat," which means it needs to have the original title to be registered in Maryland under your name. So to meet this requirement, you need to have your wife title it before selling it, which takes you back to the original problem.
It is possible to launder a title for Maryland by just finding a friend with an address in a state where it is easier to get a title, "selling" the boat to him, letting him title it, and then signing the title over to you. You can then take that title to Maryland.

I lived in Maryland for six years. Nothing is easy there, but think akido, not karate, when dealing with Maryland officials.
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  #35  
Old 04-18-2013
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re: Dinghy Registration Dilemma - MD

My local Maryland DNR office told me to simply bring in a pencil-rubbing of my dinghy's HIN plate, and a purchase receipt if I have one, and they would issue me a title.

Maryland beauracracy is bad, but I think you guys may be making this more difficult than it really is.
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  #36  
Old 04-18-2013
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re: Dinghy Registration Dilemma - MD

Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
Well I'm sending off my title/registration documents to Annapolis tonight. I have a certificate of origin generated from the manufacturer's website, and sales printouts from Amazon for the $100 raft and $80 trolling motor. I'm enclosing $6.72 to cover $2 title fee and $4.72 excise tax (after credit for what I paid Pennsylvania).

Getting a handwritten "bill of sale" from Amazon.com is impossible. So we'll see just how much grief they want to give me over a $180 purchase.
Guess what - Maryland doesn't care how much you paid for the dink. They're going to charge you for the Book Value of it, and I think they made up the book prices. This is true even if you have a bill of sale.

Good Luck,

Gary
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  #37  
Old 04-18-2013
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re: Dinghy Registration Dilemma - MD

Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbleheadMd View Post
My local Maryland DNR office told me to simply bring in a pencil-rubbing of my dinghy's HIN plate, and a purchase receipt if I have one, and they would issue me a title.

Maryland beauracracy is bad, but I think you guys may be making this more difficult than it really is.
I agree completely. In the past I've registered boats in NJ, PA, and MD, and while the quality of people that you have to deal with can vary greatly, I've never found an insurmountable barrier. The ones I've talked to all basically say that their goals are to make sure stolen vessels are detected, and taxes are collected. They insist that the "horror stories" that you read about are all cases of people trying to get away without paying taxes or registering a stolen boat, and that the Internet legends that we all read usually do not have a full disclosure of all the the facts.

With this in mind, doing a fictitious sale to your wife is bound to accomplish nothing more than raising unwanted and unnecessary suspicion.

In my own case (registering a raft/trolling motor that was purchased from Amazon.com), Maryland's requirements are spelled out very clearly on their website:

Quote:
New Vessel Purchased via Internet

When a vessel is purchased via the Internet, and is shipped with a manufacturer’s certificate of origin (MCO) that contains no signature or a preprinted signature, or purchaser is directed to a website to create the MCO, the following is required to establish ownership:

Vessels 12’ in length and smaller

DNR Form B-240
Manufacturer’s Certificate of Origin
Pencil tracing or photograph of Hull identification number
Evidence of payment
My Intex raft fits this exactly. I generated my Certificate of Origin by going to Intex's website and typing in my HIN that was stamped on the raft.

Unfortunately, I sent my materials last night before finding this little explanation on the website, and I did not include a photo of the HIN. I just called down and spoke to Cathy in the Annapolis office, and she said that Amazon purchases have become so commonplace that they have started accepting these without requiring the tracing/photo. So I should be good to go. I'll let you guys know how it went.

The biggest problem I ever had was registering a 40 year old boat trailer in PA. I had bought my Phantom sailboat with trailer from an elderly couple in NJ who were retiring to Arizona. They had two boats and trailers, and could only take one with them (they kept the newer of the two trailers). I took their paperwork but did not register right away because I was moving from NJ to PA in a few months. Upon arriving in PA, I went to register the trailer and discovered that the people had accidentally given me the paperwork for the trailer that they took to Arizona. I actually tracked them down by phone, but the husband was in the hospital for severe diabetes and the wife obviously couldn't deal with the issue under the circumstances. So I got the head of the Montgomery County DMV office, an old guy who seemed like he had "seen it all", to come outside and look at my rusty, 40 year old trailer, and I told him, "If I were going to steal a trailer, I would have picked a much nicer one to take." He laughed and stamped my paperwork.

Sometimes you just have to find the right person to reason with. I hope I don't have to go down to Annapolis in person for a $100 raft, but something tells me that this issue of $100-200 purchases from Amazon.com has become commonplace enough that they know how to deal with it.

[EDIT: I just got a call back from Sue in the Annapolis office. She was responding to a voicemail questions that I left three days ago. She told me the exact same thing that Cathy told me, and said this should fly through with no problem, even though I left out a photo of the HIN.]
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Last edited by TakeFive; 04-18-2013 at 12:23 PM.
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  #38  
Old 04-18-2013
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re: Dinghy Registration Dilemma - MD

Quote:
Originally Posted by travlineasy View Post
Guess what - Maryland doesn't care how much you paid for the dink. They're going to charge you for the Book Value of it, and I think they made up the book prices. This is true even if you have a bill of sale...
I think you're being way too cynical. We'll see in a week or so.

I dare you to find a book value on an Intex Seahawk II inflatable raft. I paid $115 brand new from Amazon. If they want to come back to me claiming it's worth $200, they'll get an extra $4.25 out of me. I would hope that they've got bigger fish to fry.

I suspect that if you try to buy a $10,000 boat and have a bill of sale for $100, you're not gonna get away with it. But something that can be easily bought online for $115 is worth $115. There's no argument that its book value is more than that, and DNR would be stupid to make that claim. I know you're trying to make them look stupid, but this is a real stretch.

Why do you sound so bitter about this? Do you have an axe to grind? What actual experience do you have with DNR actually screwing you with excise taxes?

It's fine to be anti-tax. Make your voice heard at the ballot box. Give your representative hell. But don't go making stuff up.
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Last edited by TakeFive; 04-18-2013 at 12:46 PM.
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  #39  
Old 04-18-2013
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re: Dinghy Registration Dilemma - MD

No being cynical - they wanted more when I purchased the Morgan 33, claiming the book value was twice the amount I paid. This, even when confronted with the bill of sale, survey results, and survey estimated value. After an hour, talking with several people in the Boating Services Department, finally got them to accept my documentation. I guess it's all in who you have to deal with. And, yes, it's just another way of taking money out of your pocket and placing it in the state coffers. Taxes, fees, they're all the same thing.

Gary
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  #40  
Old 04-19-2013
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Re: Dinghy Registration Dilemma - MD

How about the Rain Tax??? Naw man, MD isnt trying to reach into every pocket of every one of its citizens as deeply as it can go. Not at all.
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