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  #101  
Old 03-23-2013
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Re: Harness and Tether Recommendations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by One View Post
So, basically, you don't foresee having to beat to windward at any time under any circumstances?

only if land is 50 ft from me to leeward..lol--then i use my engine.

in real time cruising, in over 10,000 miles(which doesnt count pre 2008--i been sailing since age 7, in the 50s), i have yet to HAVE to beat to windward. the guy i sailed with in gom LIKED to do that, but i have found no realistic reason to bash either my boat nor my body into weather. is a futile and useless thing to do . yes i have done it, and no, there is no reason to have to do that penance.
good sailing is knowing how not to have to do the bash for no reason on this earth is it necessary.
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Last edited by zeehag; 03-23-2013 at 05:49 PM.
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  #102  
Old 03-23-2013
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Re: Harness and Tether Recommendations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
only if land is 50 ft from me to leeward..lol--then i use my engine.

in real time cruising, i nover 10,000 miles, i have yet to HAVE to beat to windward. the guy i sailed with in gom LIKED to do that, but i have found no realistic reason to bash either my boat nor my body into weather. is a futile and useless thing to do . yes i have done it, and no, there is no reason to have to do that penance.
good sailing is knowing how not to have to do the bash for no reason on this earth is it necessary.
Seems awfully limiting. I take it you then change course if local weather makes the wind come from a different corner too.

In my mind, boats are made to beat to windward, some do it better than others.
But, seriously, if you're only doing broad reaches, almost any boat will not heel any more than 5 degrees. Hell, I can do that in my sailing dinghy, hands free.

I seriously think that makes you special, so special in fact, that it seems the discussion of life lines and jackstays are completely irrelevant to you.
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  #103  
Old 03-23-2013
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Re: Harness and Tether Recommendations?

Twice I was in Tonga wanting to get back to BC, 5,000 miles, the first 4,000 to windward. Anything which wouldn't mean going to windward was a tripling of the distance. I sailed non stop last time. Good cruising boats get you where you want to go, they don't dictate where you may go.
Any tether on a side deck lifeline on a well heeled, rail down boat, wont stop you from going over the rail under the lifelines. Having to take it off to do anything is far more dangerous than a longer tether.
At my mast, I have lifeline with a snap on the end, which will stop me from reaching the deck or anything hard ,should I slip. I snap it on my harness when reefing, etc.
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Last edited by Brent Swain; 03-25-2013 at 05:06 PM.
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  #104  
Old 03-23-2013
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Re: Harness and Tether Recommendations?

Back on the topic of harnesses and PFDs:

I would like to put in a pitch for the humble foam type III pfd combined with a traditional webbing harness.


+



=



In hot climates, the foam PFDs may not be the best, but many of us sail in less than tropical conditions and I believe they offer the following advantages:

1: The foam PFD adds a lot of insulation and can easily be layered over, or under follies for added warmth.

2: The type III can not (realistically) malfunction with its primary purpose. Flotation. No triggering device to corrode, no bladder to puncture.

3: You can swim effectively in one of these, allowing you to participate in your own rescue.

4: They can be easily integrated with a traditional webbing harness at little expense. It doesn't take much imagination to figure out how to thread the harness though some of the Type III buckle loops and make your own combo PFD/harness at low cost.

5: The foam protects your ribs and vital organs from your harness. If you do take a huge fall onto your harness, the foam will help spread the load and prevent you from cracking ribs, or worse. Speaking of which, how well do those "one size fits all" inflatable harnesses fit you? If they're below the ribs you risk a ruptured spleen or lacerated liver.

6: The foam protects your ribs and vital organs from other falls. Tether falls notwithstanding you can easily fall on a pitching, wet deck and your torso may contact the deckhouse, cockpit seat, or even a winch. Again the foam padding may protect you.

7: Comfort. Sometimes I end up wedged in some uncomfortable part of the boat, especially when racing. I'm often curled up on my side on the rail, with a piece of deck hardware poking into my ribs, or leaning against stainless lifelines. The foam PFD makes these uncomfortable positions much more bearable.

As cool and space age as the sub $500 Spinlock harnesses look, give the good old type III and webbing harness a second look.

MedSailor

PS One makes an excellent point about wearing a helmet. Many sailors talk about (and spend extra money and maintenance time) trying to mitigate for the possibility of going overboard unconscious. Automatic inflation is the wrong approach, as I have outlined before.

Obviously not going overboard first is the most important step (tether) but since it may happen, instead of spending the money so that the unconscious (and likely drowned) victim floats, why not spend the money and effort on a helmet, so that he's not unconscious in the first place? If we really do fear this scenario (I don't), it seems like a much better mitigation strategy.

A dock-mate of mine (a neurosurgeon I believe)used to race his J-boat single handed. He always wore a helmet. The America's Cup cat racers are also wearing helmets now too.
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Last edited by MedSailor; 03-23-2013 at 06:19 PM.
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  #105  
Old 03-23-2013
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Re: Harness and Tether Recommendations?

brent--one does not have to unhook to go from stern to bow and back to stern on my boat even when going all the way around the boat in a full circle. i sail a ketch. i do not sail out and back daysails. there is no back--only out.

where i am, which is not pnw by any stretch, is paradise. we talking no weather problems until furycame season. then there is a problem. until then--no problema. no headwinds and no bashing . in gom, there was always a choice--bash or sail in comfort to a destination. i do not foresee me taking the bash path if there is a respectable choice. i will not be going to pnw nor will i be sailing in coldville, anywhere on this earth.

there is no need to beat to windward here.
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  #106  
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Re: Harness and Tether Recommendations?

For those who would like to get the jackline off the deck, C.S. Johnson makes a Jackline Fairlead that attaches to shrouds (and possibly a backstay) to get your jackline off the deck, thus possibly negating the issue of length of tethers vs. distance to edge of deck. It is item 49-100.
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  #107  
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Re: Harness and Tether Recommendations?

A question for inshore/near shore sailors....when do you deploy the jackline and when do you take it in? Same question of off-shore sailors.

Most people seem to use webbing or tubular webbing for jacklines, but leaving these out for extended time (unless you replace them frequently) could give a surprise in use after UV degregation sets in. I read where one experienced sailor used 1/2" nylon double braid (typically ~8400 lbs. breakstrength) as his jacklines. Nylon to give some stretch to absorb shock and make it easier on the body, and double braid so that he could leave the jacklines always in place...the idea being that the outer cover would take the UV degregration, and the inter line would retain the strength to serve as a jackline. His thought was that while round lines will roll under foot, it was better to have the jackline always deployed. Depending on your boat deck layout, it might be possible to lay the jackline close to the deck house out of the way so that it doesn't get stepped on along most of the deck (and only the foredeck would be an "underfoot" concern). If one waited until conditions begin to get bad before putting out jacklines, there was an element of danger in deploying the jacklines, and also a tendency to say that we might just try to get by without deploying them.

For those who want a long jackline to reaches from bow to stern, consider the stretch that the jackline is going to give when you go overboard.....it compounds the length of tether to edge of the boat issue. You can reduce the stretch distance that the jackline will give towards the deck edge if you make it so that it is several short lengths vs. one long length. Run the test with a small nylon or polyester line. On my boat, the jackline is in two sections by winding it through the shrouds. It allows going from cockpit to mast in one section, then from mast to bow by reclipping in around the shrouds (not a problem with double tether)....my shrouds are inboard, so this might or might not work for everyone.
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Last edited by NCC320; 03-23-2013 at 07:52 PM.
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  #108  
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Re: Harness and Tether Recommendations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
A British sailing magazine did tests on harnesses, by traveling at 4 knots and having the person in them jump overboard....
Then they tried attaching the tether to the shoulder. That not only allowed the occupant to breath , but it also allowed him to pull himself back in. That was the best option, the one I use.
Manufacturers of safety harnesses don't do any such testing, they just copy what everyone else does.
I have eliminated the D rings, for a lashing, as they are far more comfortable in your bunk. Attaching the tether to the top of the shoulder also stops it from digging into you when you are single handed, and in your bunk on a squally night.
Brent -
Where can one find a safety harness where the tether attaches to the shoulder, as you recommend?

Also, what is a "lashing" in the context of attaching a tether to a harness? (Newbie here; sorry if this is a simplistic question.) Thx!
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Re: Harness and Tether Recommendations?

Medsailor -

What kind of helmet does your friend use? Does the helmet have a brim, and if not, how does he integrate a helmet with a brimmed hat? Thx - again, sorry if these seem simplistic questions, but this thread certainly has my attention....
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Last edited by joebeach; 03-23-2013 at 07:58 PM.
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  #110  
Old 03-23-2013
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Re: Harness and Tether Recommendations?

I have seen skater helmets with a brim (edit: brand=Bern for examples), but for water specific helmets take a look at Gecko Headgear helmets and Garth helmets. Some come without brim, some with detachable brims, some even with an adjustable coloured visor you could use as a brim. There are loads of options out there if you want a helmet for sailing.

I mentioned helmets first because I thought it would be worth considering, but I actually thought I'd be laughed at outright. I'm glad that more people than me is giving this some real consideration

Last edited by One; 03-23-2013 at 08:50 PM.
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