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  #131  
Old 03-24-2013
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Re: Harness and Tether Recommendations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
What, does yours have spent Uranium for ballast?

I've had some of those designs heel more than that in 25 knots, while tied to a dock... (grin)
No, he is talking about the boat on the hard, I mean on a stand out of water.

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  #132  
Old 03-24-2013
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Re: Harness and Tether Recommendations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
How would you disconnecting it from your back to move to another tether or go down below, without removing your pfd?
Great question. In order to put this tether setup on, or take it off, you must tie a girth hitch, or untie one. Going below is easy enough as you would leave the tether connected to your PFD and you would just disconnect the non-pfd end of the tether from the jackline and take the tether down below with you.

On the boats I've been on where tethers and harnesses were used, people each had their own tether and kept it connected to their PFD for ready access. Most of us wrapped it around our waist (around our back) and clipped it back to the D-ring so that is was out of the way, but ready to use.

Using my setup, removing the tether from the PFD would require you to untie the red line at the shackle (easiest) or at the back of the pfd. Probably 15-30 seconds of added time and complexity for taking the tether off, but again, not required for going below.

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  #133  
Old 03-24-2013
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Re: Harness and Tether Recommendations?

You can find used harnesses on eBay, I just bought a couple. I like separate jackets and harnesses. Often I'll clip in without the jacket....
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  #134  
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Re: Harness and Tether Recommendations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
Congratulations, you have quickly realized an important point:

There are real sailors on this listserv, who are actually sailing their boats and know what they are doing, and, know what is important.

Then there are picnic sailors, who think sailing is really about buying more gear and equipment from our sponsors. The picnic sailors buy expensive stuff for their expensive boatshow boats, but rarely actually sail their boats in conditions in which they would need them. What keeps them from sailing? Could it be the idea that they just need that particular liferaft, that particular EPIRB, all the equipment and gear to run all lines aft to the cockpit, the harness so they will be perfectly safe, and not to mention some more ASA courses from the "expert" instructors...and on and on and on.

Robin Knox Johnston is a greater sailor than anyone on this listserv, and he circumnavigated solo without a harness, through the Southern Ocean, the most treacherous ocean in the world. How do you explain that?

There are people on this listserv who have 10 times more gear and equipment than he did, and they never leave the marina, except to motorsail their expensive boatshow boat to the next raft-up. To these "sailors", the enjoyment of sailing is mostly imaginery, not actual.

zeehag actually sails more than the "sailors" who think the solution to every issue is to buy more stuff.
Finally, after 120+ posts, somebody finally gets around to alluding to the most important bit of safety gear aboard any boat...

Namely, that little bit of grey matter between the sailor's ears... (grin)

A discussion such as this is certainly valuable, of course... However, the focus on "gear" and gadgets never ceases to amuse, when was the last time you saw an article in one of the glossy sailing rags about how to move safely and deftly about the deck at sea? An increasingly vestigial skill among sailors, thanks to things that eliminate the need to do so (lines led aft, for example), or features that diminish one's Situational Awareness (full cockpit enclosures, to name another)...

Grin, bigtime...

Earlier in this thread, someone cited another loss of a sailor in Oz who was "not clipped on"... No doubt, he was swept overboard due to "a Freak Wave"...

"Freak wave", my ass - there is rarely such a thing, and it is rarely the cause of someone going overboard... Whenever I hear 'freak wave', I think of this incident... Hell, a sack of potatoes would have done a better job of staying aboard than this guy...


You want to keep yourself from falling off the boat? Never, EVER make a move that places you at risk without reminding yourself that if you go over the side, you're a dead man... ALWAYS visualize that you're sailing alone, that the edge of the deck represents the edge of a 1,000 foot cliff, and that the lifelines are charged with 600 volts of alternating current... NEVER, if at all possible, go out on deck in a hurry, especially at night... Be patient, observe the wave patterns and motion of the boat, in much the same fashion you might sit outside an inlet in dicey conditions for awhile, before beginning your approach...

I know I'm a broken record about the poor deck ergonomics of many modern boats, and the necessity of keeping decks clear - but IMHO those factors represent the greatest danger in contributing to a potential MOB situation... I just have to shake my head in wonder, at the incongruence of running jacklines along side decks lined with jerry jugs of diesel fuel, and all manner of other Kroozing Krap I see boats burdened with...

But, perhaps most importantly, Have No Fear of venturing out of the cockpit, embrace whatever opportunity arises to do do... In other words, Practice moving about your boat in boisterous conditions... How ironic, that many seem somewhat desperate to reduce the need to ever venture forward, when we all know that at some point - usually in the most difficult of conditions - one will be compelled to do so... Seems akin to expecting someone who never, ever drives in anything but a blizzard, to be really competent at doing so... (grin)

Get over the obsession with the gear and gadgets, staying on the boat is all in your head...

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Last edited by JonEisberg; 03-24-2013 at 10:26 PM.
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  #135  
Old 03-24-2013
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Re: Harness and Tether Recommendations?

And once again we go with the notion that being tied onto the boat is somehow cheating, and that you should be able to hold on by yourself, even if you're up front because of a problem.

With that attitude, I don't understand why one should imagine the lifelines to carry 600 volts. Surely you don't have lifelines around the perimeter, and definitely not a pulpit, right?

- Or perhaps that's perfectly alright to help keep you on deck, but tying yourself to something is somehow relying on "gear and gadgets".

The hypocrisy would be funny, if it wouldn't put people who followed your "advice" in danger.
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  #136  
Old 03-24-2013
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Re: Harness and Tether Recommendations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Seems to me that ropeless climbers eventually hurt or kill themselves.
Do we rope-up on a step ladder? No.

Then we are discussing matters of degree rather than absolutes, and that is the point. I rope-up and harness-up rather conservatively, IMHO. But not all the time.

----

PS. The fatalities I helped clean up (and the injuries) were roped-up but did not understand the engineering.
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  #137  
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Re: Harness and Tether Recommendations?

Regarding the above video, it's not the only MOB video where crew has been swept or fallen over as they unclipped entering the cockpit; it can be a very dangerous spot because of the open space to leeward. I'm surprised at the number of racing boats where the tangle of lines makes early unclipping necessary (I don't know if that was the case here, or just a casual attitude).
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  #138  
Old 03-24-2013
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Re: Harness and Tether Recommendations?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
... However, the focus on "gear" and gadgets never ceases to amuse...
As the OP for this thread, I think getting advice on harnesses and tethers is an appropriate topic for SailNet, and does not fall into the category of focusing on "gadgets." A harness is a pretty basic requirement for offshore, and a prudent thing for singlehanding.

The other skills of moving around the boat are also beneficial, and should be discussed and practiced too.

But I don't think my question was frivolous or inappropriate. Safe practices are critically important, but they are not a substitute for clipping in.
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  #139  
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Re: Harness and Tether Recommendations?

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Originally Posted by One View Post
And once again we go with the notion that being tied onto the boat is somehow cheating, and that you should be able to hold on by yourself, even if you're up front because of a problem.

With that attitude, I don't understand why one should imagine the lifelines to carry 600 volts. Surely you don't have lifelines around the perimeter, and definitely not a pulpit, right?

- Or perhaps that's perfectly alright to help keep you on deck, but tying yourself to something is somehow relying on "gear and gadgets".

The hypocrisy would be funny, if it wouldn't put people who followed your "advice" in danger.
See Post #48 for my initial "advice" to the OP, for those of us who sail smaller boats... It involves the use of a fixed tether at the base of the mast like the yellow line pictured below, one of 4 fixed tethers I employ on my boat, in addition to the Dyform jacklines encased in webbing which I might occasionally use...

Guess I didn't express myself very well, not sure where you got the idea I'd ever recommend someone's not clipping in whenever the thought occurs to them it might be prudent to do so...

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  #140  
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Re: Harness and Tether Recommendations?

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Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
See Post #48 for my initial "advice" to the OP, for those of us who sail smaller boats... It involves the use of a fixed tether at the base of the mast like the yellow line pictured below, one of 4 fixed tethers I employ on my boat, in addition to the Dyform jacklines encased in webbing which I might occasionally use...

Guess I didn't express myself very well, not sure where you got the idea I'd ever recommend someone's not clipping in whenever the thought occurs to them it might be prudent to do so...

Well, that was how it came across to me. I'm glad to see you clip in too.
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