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post #1 of 20 Old 03-24-2013 Thread Starter
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Thumbs down Boum!!!!



The Alexander von Humboldt was returning to Germany after a training voyage with a crew of fifty nine (59) consisting of thirty three (33) trainees and twenty six (26) full time crew. She is a large three masted sail training vessel registered in Germany.

The visibility on the day was good (10 Km +), wind was southerly force 5-6 with weather being grey and overcast.

During the afternoon of the 20th August 2011 the Alexander von Humboldt detected the Andrea on a steady bearing on its port side. The Andrea was not fishing and was the give way vessel. The Alexander von Humboldt started sounding its whistle. The Andrea failed to give way. The Alexander von Humboldt also tried to contact the Andrea by VHF radio but had no response. The Andrea claims to have gone hard to starboard and when within 15-20 metres of the Alex von Humboldt, the Andrea was seen to go full astern. The Andrea struck the port quarter of the Alexander von Humboldt. It was a fairly low speed collision.

Apart from some scratched paintwork, the Andrea was undamaged.
The Alexander von Humboldt was lucky to suffer only some dented shell plating with associated damage to internal wooden bulkheads and deck planking together with bent or buckled handrails. It was very fortunate that no harm came to the crew of the Alexander von Humboldt and that its rigging and watertight integrity remained intact.

Mr Jan Baarssen, 51, of Urk, Netherlands pleaded guilty for conduct endangering ships or persons. He was finerd£1,700 plus costs of £6,435.
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post #2 of 20 Old 03-24-2013
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Re: Boum!!!!

I believe that the pilot's name was Otto... Otto Helm.

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post #3 of 20 Old 03-24-2013
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Re: Boum!!!!

I figured out a long time ago that graveyards are full of people that had the right of way. The Humboldt didn't make any course change until just seconds before the collision even though everyone on deck saw the other ship bearing down on them.
No question the Andrea was on auto pilot with no one paying attention to what was going on, but the Humboldt must share some of the blame in this.

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post #4 of 20 Old 03-25-2013
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Re: Boum!!!!

Keep in mind square riggers don't turn on a dime. You don't release one sheet and spin the wheel. They had began a turn when they were hit. There is a good explanation on the You Tube site.

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I figured out a long time ago that graveyards are full of people that had the right of way. The Humboldt didn't make any course change until just seconds before the collision even though everyone on deck saw the other ship bearing down on them.
No question the Andrea was on auto pilot with no one paying attention to what was going on, but the Humboldt must share some of the blame in this.
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post #5 of 20 Old 03-25-2013
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Re: Boum!!!!

How could the Humbolt have done anything but stand on.It takes longer than she had to bring engine on line so no reverse or speed up. Turning to port is out unless done miles back so as to not cross the others course and then if Andrea turn to starbd to pass astern , what then? Turning to starb'd could possibly have helped if done so soon enough but by the time it was apparent the other was not going to yield it was too late. There's a difference between C34 turning radius and that of a larger ship.
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post #6 of 20 Old 03-25-2013
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Re: Boum!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck53 View Post
I figured out a long time ago that graveyards are full of people that had the right of way. The Humboldt didn't make any course change until just seconds before the collision even though everyone on deck saw the other ship bearing down on them.
No question the Andrea was on auto pilot with no one paying attention to what was going on, but the Humboldt must share some of the blame in this.
YES. This is true, and while the ship in the video is a square rigger and it can be argued that she couldn't take action to avoid a collision, we, in our more maneuverable boats not only should, we must.

COLREGS state that we SHALL take action to avoid a collision regardless of cause. The implication here of the word "shall" instead of "may" is that taking any and every necessary action to avoid a collision is a requirement, no mater how grossly at fault the other vessel is.

Here is Rule 17 from the COLREGS (emphasis mine). COLREGS can be found online here:COLREGS Rule 17

Rule 17- Action by Stand-on Vessel
(a) (i) Where one of two vessels is to keep out of the way, the other shall keep her course and speed.
(ii) The latter vessel may however take action to avoid collision by her maneuver alone, as soon as it becomes apparent to her that the vessel required to keep out of the way is not taking appropriate action in compliance with these Rules.
(b) When, from any cause, the vessel required to keep her course and speed finds herself so close that collision cannot be avoided by the action of the give-way vessel alone, she shall take such action as will best aid to avoid collision.
(c) A power-driven vessel which takes action in a crossing situation in accordance with subparagraph (a)(ii) of this Rule to avoid collision with another power-driven vessel shall, if the circumstances of the case admit, not alter course to port for a vessel on her own port side.
(d) This Rule does not relieve the give-way vessel of her obligation to keep out of the way.


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post #7 of 20 Old 03-25-2013
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Re: Boum!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
<
Mr Jan Baarssen, 51, of Urk, Netherlands pleaded guilty for conduct endangering ships or persons. He was finerd£1,700 plus costs of £6,435.[/B][/COLOR]
Good and timely post, given the discussions about safety at sea.

It's dangerous out there. Just as in driving a car, you have to assume anyone who can hit you, will hit you. Assume every other vessel is on auto-pilot with no one on watch. The key is to avoid those situations long before they get to that point. Take evasive action early, regardless of the rules of the road. The obligation to "Stand On" does not mean you can't change course early to avoid any kind of crossing situation. I keep a hand-bearing compass in the cockpit and draw a bead on vessels as soon as I can see them - if the bearing is not changing, you better change your course early as possible.

To some of the other posters, a commercial fishing vessel engaged in fishing has right of way over a sailing vessel. Some of the fishing captains ACT as if they are always engaged in fishing, whether they are dragging a net or lines, or not. Give them a wide berth and stay out of their way at all costs!
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post #8 of 20 Old 03-25-2013
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Re: Boum!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
Good and timely post, given the discussions about safety at sea.

It's dangerous out there. Just as in driving a car, you have to assume anyone who can hit you, will hit you. Assume every other vessel is on auto-pilot with no one on watch. The key is to avoid those situations long before they get to that point. Take evasive action early, regardless of the rules of the road. The obligation to "Stand On" does not mean you can't change course early to avoid any kind of crossing situation. I keep a hand-bearing compass in the cockpit and draw a bead on vessels as soon as I can see them - if the bearing is not changing, you better change your course early as possible.

To some of the other posters, a commercial fishing vessel engaged in fishing has right of way over a sailing vessel. Some of the fishing captains ACT as if they are always engaged in fishing, whether they are dragging a net or lines, or not. Give them a wide berth and stay out of their way at all costs!

That's what I'm talking about.

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post #9 of 20 Old 03-25-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Boum!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
Good and timely post, given the discussions about safety at sea.

It's dangerous out there. Just as in driving a car, you have to assume anyone who can hit you, will hit you. Assume every other vessel is on auto-pilot with no one on watch. The key is to avoid those situations long before they get to that point. Take evasive action early, regardless of the rules of the road. The obligation to "Stand On" does not mean you can't change course early to avoid any kind of crossing situation. I keep a hand-bearing compass in the cockpit and draw a bead on vessels as soon as I can see them - if the bearing is not changing, you better change your course early as possible.

To some of the other posters, a commercial fishing vessel engaged in fishing has right of way over a sailing vessel. Some of the fishing captains ACT as if they are always engaged in fishing, whether they are dragging a net or lines, or not. Give them a wide berth and stay out of their way at all costs!
Fishing boats are dangerous specially when they come to port after a hard night of work.

Some years ago I was at just some miles out of Peniche almost at the end of a 1500nm voyage sailing close against the wind. Nice wind, maybe 10k with the boat having 13K apparent and making 6,5K. I was paying attention to a fishing boat coming probably on collision course and in a course that would take them directly to port. I was not worried, 10 in the morning on a beautiful sunny day, they surely were seeing me.

When the boats come to 200 m of distance I sounded my horn, just to be sure and keep sounding it till at 50m someone showed at the bridge and I thought... finally!!!! But the guy disappeared on the interior of the boat again without any change course and the boats were really close now. I turned my boat around hard given him space to pass at very short distance, just some meters and at that time when the boast were almost side by side it appeared the Captain of the fishing boat yelling with the guy that had appeared previously at the bridge, turning his boat hard on the opposite side.

I guess he was sleeping and the sailor that appeared first instead of changing course went to awake him to know what to do

If I had not changed course we would have collided. I never imagined that in such a nice day they would be all asleep on that fishing boat.

That was a lesson for me. I got a lot more suspicious after that.

Regards

Paulo


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Last edited by PCP; 03-25-2013 at 09:04 AM.
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post #10 of 20 Old 03-25-2013
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Re: Boum!!!!

This is not just out at sea...try Narragansett bay around 4th of July. It is like Caddy Shack up here....LOL.

Forget about not paying attention, they are aiming for you.
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