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  #91  
Old 04-01-2013
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Re: Sailboat perishes off Hatteras, USCG rescues crew

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonV View Post
WHAT A LOAD OF BS....Someone makes an error in judgement, gets in trouble and call's on the rescue authorities (in this case Coast Guard). I am almost amazed at the predictability of their cry's of foul from the obviously well informed and well traveled, seasoned sailors on this and every other similar forum. This in turn morphs into cost of the rescue and who should pay(No one should pay its humanity), followed by how this will effect ME in the pocket with increased insurance(bad luck if you want insurance pay you dues), and an atrocious drain on the public purse to fund these rescues of our fellow man( the cost of rescues has already been budgeted for in the yearly running cost). May I say If it is such an affront that our fellow man will at some time come unstuck and need help of some description then why not disband the Coast Guard and perhaps the Navy or all armed forces with a rescue component. Lets make it Law that only those that can pay to be rescued, be rescued. we could include Ambulance and fire fighters, No money no help. How about Police lets have them only protect the important people that can Pay for their time, If you dial 911 or 999 or 000 it will be $100 for the first 15min then $100 for each hour or part there of. Most of us are humanitarian and have ethics and will do what we can for our fellow man. People make mistakes and things do not always go as planed. Those guys would not have agreed with each other to go out and get rescued, loose the beautiful boat and be ridiculed by these adventurous folk bashing away on their keyboards. We have rescue services because we need them, the civilized world would be a sad place without these brave and caring souls who put their lives on the line for everyone, no questions asked. And they do it because they love it. Thanks for letting me rant I need it.
Simon,

I share some of your feelings, but you have to look at the reality of the situation. I'm addressing some of your bolded comments.

1. It would be nice if humanitarian services were free, but in this era of poor economic growth, and slashed budgets, pay for SAR workers, fuel for planes and rescue vessels has to come from somewhere. Wishing for it to be free, simply won't make it so.

2. I agree that people make mistakes but really, you have to admit that we, mariners, (recreational, commercial, power or sail) have a duty to go to sea responsibly. We can't carelessly hurl ourselves "into the void" because "I pay taxes, so someone has to rescue me!".

We have more tools and technology than ever before which should enable us to make better informed decisions, exercise better judgement, and be more self-reliant, yet more and more people are setting off under dubious conditions and simply punching the "rescue button" without making any serious attempt at self-rescue. "Stop the ride, I want to get off!"

I don't know what's going to happen "globally", but in the U.S., the media is going to sell this to our couch-potato public into "Why are we spending $800,000 to rescue one fool who set off into a storm?"

They will (falsely) make it look like an epidemic that needs dealt with, and we'll all pay the consequences.
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Last edited by BubbleheadMd; 04-01-2013 at 09:52 AM.
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  #92  
Old 04-01-2013
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Re: Sailboat perishes off Hatteras, USCG rescues crew

Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbleheadMd View Post
...We have more tools and technology than ever before which should enable us to make better informed decisions, exercise better judgement, and be more self-reliant, yet more and more people are setting off under dubious conditions and simply punching the "rescue button" without making any serious attempt at self-rescue. "Stop the ride, I want to get off!"...
I agree with the need to act responsibly and not put our SAR people in unnecessary danger.

But while it's tempting to think that technology is emboldening people to take more and more dubious risks, US DOT data show quite clearly that this is not true. From 1985-2010, the number of cases declined by as much as 75% in all metrics: SAR cases, sorties, lives lost, etc.

I think that there's a natural tendency for people to think that "I use this new technology wisely, but that other clown over there probably abuses it." The data overwhelmingly show that the number of accidents has shown a steady decline, and I suspect that the availability of better technology and safety awareness play a role in this improvement.

I also think that the proliferation of videos via YouTube and shows like Coast Guard Alaska create the impression that these incidents are on the increase because we see a lot more of them. However, the statistics seem to show that this is a false impression created by the greater availability of videos and related information, rather than an increase in the actual incidents. This greater availability is a good thing, because we can learn from it and adjust our behavior accordingly. But don't go thinking that there are more rescues occurring just because there are more videos available.
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  #93  
Old 04-01-2013
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Re: Sailboat perishes off Hatteras, USCG rescues crew

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonV View Post
WHAT A LOAD OF BS....Someone makes an error in judgement, gets in trouble and call's on the rescue authorities (in this case Coast Guard). I am almost amazed at the predictability of their cry's of foul from the obviously well informed and well traveled, seasoned sailors on this and every other similar forum.
Perhaps, that is why we are not the ones out there calling for help?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonV View Post
This in turn morphs into cost of the rescue and who should pay(No one should pay its humanity), followed by how this will effect ME in the pocket with increased insurance(bad luck if you want insurance pay you dues), and an atrocious drain on the public purse to fund these rescues of our fellow man( the cost of rescues has already been budgeted for in the yearly running cost). May I say If it is such an affront that our fellow man will at some time come unstuck and need help of some description then why not disband the Coast Guard and perhaps the Navy or all armed forces with a rescue component. Lets make it Law that only those that can pay to be rescued, be rescued. we could include Ambulance and fire fighters, No money no help. How about Police lets have them only protect the important people that can Pay for their time, If you dial 911 or 999 or 000 it will be $100 for the first 15min then $100 for each hour or part there of.
It's not that black or white, or that extreme. This is quite different from police, armed forces, paramedics or firefighter work. Besides, no one said they shouldn't be rescued, only that they should reimburse the costs when they call for help out of convenience rather than necessity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonV View Post
Most of us are humanitarian and have ethics and will do what we can for our fellow man. People make mistakes and things do not always go as planed. Those guys would not have agreed with each other to go out and get rescued, loose the beautiful boat and be ridiculed by these adventurous folk bashing away on their keyboards. We have rescue services because we need them, the civilized world would be a sad place without these brave and caring souls who put their lives on the line for everyone, no questions asked.
Most of us recognize the difference between an amateur and a professional. Professionals are held to a higher standard and are legally liable for the damages caused by their failure to live up to that higher standard. You are exaggerating for effect, but it is backfiring. No one is calling for the abolishment of rescue services. Some believe the users should accept some responsibility for the costs in situations like this. They weren't planning to share their fees with us, were they? Why should we as taxpayers bear the costs of their poor judgment and mistakes, particularly when any experienced boater recognizes their foolishness?

Last edited by jameswilson29; 04-01-2013 at 10:57 AM.
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  #94  
Old 04-01-2013
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Re: Sailboat perishes off Hatteras, USCG rescues crew

Phenomena is called ascertainment bias when doing epidemiology. In medicine when you have a technology that improves ability to Dx. a particular illness both incidence and prevalence of that illness seems to sky rocket when often nothing has changed. Same thing occurs with accidents and untoward events in our "tuned in" world.
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  #95  
Old 04-02-2013
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Re: Sailboat perishes off Hatteras, USCG rescues crew

A little late to the party here, but imagine my surprise to see one of the guys in the article, and he looks incredibly familiar. Sure enough, we crossed paths in Annapolis this summer. I was singlehanding up from NC, doing a little Chesapeake tour, and he was the water taxi captain the day I sailed in. Nice guy, the first mate. I remember his commentary about being able to see the remnants of the old name of my vessel (I renamed her). He asked if I was superstitious -I'm not- but he did warn me about that. Well I just didn't want to grind a bunch of gelcoat off to make it disappear, and nor did/will I. The sun is handling it at a snails pace.

I'm in awe of their decisions. Running down the ICW there is gravy, more direct, and going south to boot. I think they just did not really understand the situation along this stretch of coastline. Is it possible that people can have lots of sailing experience but just not understand the stakes of this stretch of ocean and it's multiple taciturn inlets? Or was it just bad judgement, being a little cavalier about the horror that the Cape can be in even more moderate conditions, coupled with some mis-placed confidence in a heavy displacement cruiser? I'm not judging them, none of my business, but I simply can't fathom why they did it, unless they just really needed an adventure? A book deal?

I'm glad they did not try to get through some of those inlets. A grounding could have been tragic, with some hard ground under the washing machine that Oregon Inlet could have been. Too bad they did not have propulsion to get them to Cape Lookout. Cape Lookout is a great place to tuck behind there if winds were NE.

These aren't bad guys, but they most certainly lack(ed) respect for this stretch of water. While it is hard to understand, I hope newer sailors understand that there can be a lot of nuance to coastal sailing; information that is not printed on charts or programmed into your chartplotters. While a sound vessel with a skilled captain and crew can handle these situations, heaving to, running, sea anchors, etc, the stakes are incredibly high. If one thing goes wrong - like fuel pickup issue they had - your options are limited. What these guys did was dumb, I don't see how anyone could say otherwise, but we all do dumb stuff from time to time, just not enough to get in the newspaper for all to read about, and publicly comment on your judgement.
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  #96  
Old 07-02-2013
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Re: Sailboat perishes off Hatteras, USCG rescues crew

I found Andante 2 in the North Atlantic on June 10, 2013. I was on the way to New Brunswick, Canada from Montserrat and sighted her 230 miles north-northeast of Bermuda. She is dismasted but is riding high with her entire bootstrap showing. Both the full height aft door and the closed cockpit hatch were open yet she has not taken on water and even appeared dry within. Cushions are still in the shallow seating area just aft the mast.

Her broken mast took out most of the tubular rail on the starboard side with the trailing wires. She also had a missing davit on the port side. Other than that she was in fine condition and looked good.

I was solo in an angry sea that day so did not want to risk boarding her although I regret the loss of obvious salvage. I circled her and took photos then carried on in foul weather.
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  #97  
Old 07-02-2013
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Re: Sailboat perishes off Hatteras, USCG rescues crew

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Originally Posted by fullcastle View Post
I found Andante 2 in the North Atlantic on June 10, 2013. I was on the way to New Brunswick, Canada from Montserrat and sighted her 230 miles north-northeast of Bermuda. She is dismasted but is riding high with her entire bootstrap showing. Both the full height aft door and the closed cockpit hatch were open yet she has not taken on water and even appeared dry within. Cushions are still in the shallow seating area just aft the mast.

Her broken mast took out most of the tubular rail on the starboard side with the trailing wires. She also had a missing davit on the port side. Other than that she was in fine condition and looked good.

I was solo in an angry sea that day so did not want to risk boarding her although I regret the loss of obvious salvage. I circled her and took photos then carried on in foul weather.

This is why I love this forum. People definitely sail around here! Welcome to SN full. And thanks for the update.

It would be great if you could post those pics at some point.
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  #98  
Old 07-02-2013
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Re: Sailboat perishes off Hatteras, USCG rescues crew

Yup, there's all sorts of stuff floating around out there these days...

But, definitely NOT representative of any trend... (grin)

this is a strange one, for sure... Seems to have all the signs of an abandonment, we can only hope the crew is safe somewhere, and their rescue simply didn't make it onto our radar screen...

Celebrity Summit finds derelict sailboat in Atlantic - CNN iReport


Last edited by JonEisberg; 07-02-2013 at 10:27 PM.
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  #99  
Old 07-02-2013
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Re: Sailboat perishes off Hatteras, USCG rescues crew

JonE - you are one OC kind of trendy cat. I gotta give that to you.

Would that be spooky or what having to be the guy to go below and search? Eeh.
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  #100  
Old 07-02-2013
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Re: Sailboat perishes off Hatteras, USCG rescues crew

That's quite a mystery Jon. Dated mid-June, I wonder what became of the crew. Who investigates for evidence of foul play in cases such as this? Some sort of crime has got to be high on the list of possibilities. People don't just leave boats like that floating in the Atlantic for no reason.
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